From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fiddling with the menus (was: bug#4043: 23.1; thanks for emacs 23!) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:21:46 +0200 Message-ID: References: <83r5vklx9x.fsf@gnu.org> <83iqgwlvak.fsf@gnu.org> <83fxc0lupm.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1249842127 13690 80.91.229.12 (9 Aug 2009 18:22:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:22:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: xah@xahlee.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 09 20:22:00 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MaD1r-0001Kc-KU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:21:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46206 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MaD1r-0002UT-27 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:21:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MaD1l-0002SU-Oi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:21:53 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MaD1g-0002Rq-72 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:21:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42240 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MaD1g-0002Rn-3Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:21:48 -0400 Original-Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.247]:21627) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MaD1e-0008Qx-LT; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:21:46 -0400 Original-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b6so962314ana.21 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gasjgr+oSykksJNZ/i/BlgA1WZBuZ4V3l4rAfED5AyI=; b=n60TlCWMZauAMD43/YQi8Ub3O4UQau09lrYG+yh3/AweHnwn/GqbvRhcAUC3TruY0E +zRIARpNYl135wG9Ekdgkr8vDnt2AXmaDD+kNaPxYXUqIil41yYdXZBa2NZXJ6QvN9IL VoAGQIKujpjSoY5DUIaRMqU/+p93DLc3OK1Hw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=tYn3tCGyLIMBAKpe8e/moho/8IE0tjE4366mRuY/HK0EqQJ0nIYV20/6Rb3xWCI7oU tYV3TthFTbNGzJxJ12KyBXrHqQIok820Tt/9OX4Akqw43pSPSNLiHaMWEX+D86qR+Iuw ruifizzmMB+5/LTsr+YTN9VhMr+hMTVUNGSn4= Original-Received: by 10.100.127.17 with SMTP id z17mr2613556anc.153.1249842106241; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83fxc0lupm.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113871 Archived-At: On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:10:41 +0200 >> From: Lennart Borgman >> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, xah@xahlee.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> So you are saying that subgroups are bad because they do not give you >> enough structure? > > I'm saying that subgroups called "advanced" are bad. You said In a good UI, each feature should be put under a group whose name gives a hint that the feature could be reasonably looked up in that group. Having group names such as "Advanced" or "More options", that have no mnemonic value, is abusing the menus, which are supposed to make the job of finding a feature _easier_, not harder. Maybe the name "Advanced" is bad but we were talking about the structure of the menus. Making a subgroup named "Advanced" is not bad IMO since it is a subgroup with a context. Rather, within that context it may be a very good mnemonic.