From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fiddling with the menus (was: bug#4043: 23.1; thanks for emacs 23!) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 05:53:25 +0200 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1249790025 20746 80.91.229.12 (9 Aug 2009 03:53:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 03:53:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Xah Lee , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 09 05:53:37 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MZzTV-0008Ep-Dj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 05:53:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59455 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MZzTU-0005R0-In for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:53:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MZzTQ-0005Ql-5e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:53:32 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MZzTL-0005QZ-Jz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:53:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52800 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MZzTL-0005QW-HV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:53:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com ([209.85.210.172]:46371) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MZzTL-0001Ko-5U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:53:27 -0400 Original-Received: by yxe2 with SMTP id 2so3241014yxe.14 for ; Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:53:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=3lq4F/dnjsn6ZrI5JFpJHoUmAUzw8FXlAU64Cqi4dd8=; b=NiDcvi7nCD4uvlYxGblxdijSybNLYeUQwysDOSa4jnr3KZg66D5jT4xSrJH65vQcJ/ HX4smREqtsxyMIhxv26nsQBI4Lnk2zKUCNq8hlzFx1ywUKwrZ9R2B+UHroGmrl+Vx6xr lAA1mOvvBUna8xV/BO53i57uTyB7HO2swJ8gU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CvTT5Svu4lovvYAWM11DMvmhWTYX/KIsiIGIQ0uoEyMYuCrTOdqz7FlokCptV0LzfE vK2mLQ8z9LHdaeWYIDxVGZCd73W0B+5P3Lwls2pnmOHtR+nRxZUc+DbuvPr8hqZbZesa ZGZan9SjsUX8DCukmfcwOVjNFL50kRkuuaLG0= Original-Received: by 10.100.252.13 with SMTP id z13mr2187825anh.24.1249790006385; Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:53:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113840 Archived-At: On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:36 AM, Stefan Monnier wr= ote: > I agree that getting rid of the non-interactive search items in > Edit->Search would be a good simplification. I would suggest burying them deeper down in the menus instead. For advertising reasons it is still good to have them there. >> Emacs's Edit menu. >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * The Goto beginning/ending of buffer is useless as a menu= . Users >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 can intuitively press the Page Up, Page Down keys, scroll = the mouse, >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or =E2=80=9CCtrl+Home=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CCtrl+End=E2=80= =9D to do the same thing. =C2=A0All these >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 methods are familiar to users because they are implemented= in most >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 apps across Windows, Mac, Linux. =C2=A0For those using Ema= cs's =E2=80=9CM-<=E2=80=9D and >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=9CM->=E2=80=9D shortcuts, they don't need the menu = or the menu to >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 remind them. > > Not sure about these. =C2=A0They're not very useful maybe, but they do se= rve > the purpose of indicating what is the canonical keybinding for > those commands. For whom? I think new users will probably use C-End etc. >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * The =E2=80=9CCase-Insensitive Search=E2=80=9D should be = moved to be together with >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the interactive search menu under Edit. > > This also sounds OK, except for the problem of making the behavior of > the "Save options" menu entry clear: currently this entry saves all the > options that appear above in the menu. =C2=A0So if we move an entry to so= me > other menu, we get into some trouble. The "Save options" is in my opinion confusing. I think it would be better to ask for each option if it would be set permanently or just temporarily. This would be easier to understand and there would be no obstacle of this kind for moving them. >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * The Scroll-bar and Fringe menu items should be gone. =C2= =A0Scroll-bar is >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a standard feature in all applications. =C2=A0If a power u= ser wants it >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 off, he can do so thru the customization menu. =C2=A0The F= ringe adjustment >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is again for tweakers. =C2=A0It adds distraction. > > Those entries mostly play the role of advertisement. Maybe bury them under "Show/Hide - Advanced - Scroll-bar" etc? >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * The Time, Battery, are of little use. Their functionalit= y are >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 provided by the OS's tool bar. Again, for geeks who need i= t, it is >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 easy to call the command by =E2=80=9CM-x=E2=80=9D. > > I'd tend to agree. =C2=A0But I also do not remember why they were added, = so > maybe there's just something I'm missing. Bury it under advanced as above. >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 * The Size Indication, which shows the file size in the mo= de-line, >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 should be gone too because for those who needs this featur= e, they >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 don't need a menu. Bury it under advanced.