From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Darkening font-lock colors Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:22:29 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87d47hoox5.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200907302139.n6ULdKCr008497@godzilla.ics.uci.edu> <87my6lrfzf.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200907302221.n6UMLUWZ009001@godzilla.ics.uci.edu> <4A722F7B.20101@harpegolden.net> <87d47hisbq.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1249244570 5822 80.91.229.12 (2 Aug 2009 20:22:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:22:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Dan Nicolaescu , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , David De La Harpe Golden To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 02 22:22:42 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MXhZp-0007Rf-Vj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:22:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60289 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MXhZp-0007Mo-5r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:22:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MXhZk-0007Mj-UU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:22:36 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MXhZf-0007MX-Gy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:22:35 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46860 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MXhZf-0007MU-Bj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:22:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com ([209.85.210.172]:33344) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MXhZf-0002rn-0l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:22:31 -0400 Original-Received: by yxe2 with SMTP id 2so5451132yxe.14 for ; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:22:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=g9rTGgO4RmHVTGrEE/GFQIO+O+pUUd6cfG0zcWmoFgw=; b=VYYrpZRweQVVN3rickKeJDqf0/BjzASQJGUKo0YLzbMMwWb7grp6SbRDXRTbXTgNc0 ckQHQpB//a4g35+i7mkEzFrwEyTx0JaP/dfxAL9tTmqo5Bj0vvNMjUqVO7pxFuh4U8Hg 3YFwJmoyM+zgR1MCmHTdrT5j34OjoRweFg8jQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=n+SjMKk2me4cNjCGBMzuSIv7nWnN4BKLC3q6ZAW/W2eowuCrDuaJ7LHuyCpM9xcBIk Pn0MFGAIHq0uVi1sPnDH8CdWcNoGuWbSjKoZxQYcLCyCgYn1iEK7JT8vAvSBiZxjG0Bc 51dGrmQ5uGn0joZwE8RzRPttHgugcmLR18i2M= Original-Received: by 10.100.252.15 with SMTP id z15mr6915243anh.190.1249244549949; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:22:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113567 Archived-At: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:01 AM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:55 AM, Chong Yidong wrote: >> Lennart Borgman writes: >> >>> However it seems impossible to take care of this in the default color >>> scheme. I suggest adding additional color schemes for the font-lock >>> faces for this. >> >> The main goal for the default color scheme is legibility. > > I looked a bit at the usability guidelines and wrote the attached > elisp file for testing new colors. There is an interactive function > that displays the new fonts and contrast ratios. > > Testing your suggested colors I found that the contrast ratio is very > good. But it does not seem necessary to make the contrast ratio that > large as you have done. The usability guidelines suggests that a ratio > of 4.5 is enough. So there is room for colors that are more > distinguishable. Chong, I see that you have already installed the new colors. Could we please try to find something better? I am not sure they look very good (in my opinion they really don't). Wouldn't it be good to follow the WCAG accessibility guidelines (see file I put up here: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/FontLockColorsAccessibility)? Your suggestion have the needed contrast - but goes far above that and then unfortunately makes the differences between the colors too small. Unfortunately the accessibility guidelines is a bit behind when it comes to the human distinguishability of the colors. Looking a bit at color theory I can see this is a difficult matter if you have not got into it. Mapping the RGB space to human percieved color differences is something color spaces like CEILuv tries to do. I asked if someone knew how to write the algorithms , but so far I have not got any answer so I guess the people that are using Emacs are not that very much into those questions. I do not really want to become an expert in this area but the algorithms are badly described in those places where I have found them so they can't be followed. Is there anyone who knows a good mailing list or forum where to ask for some help about this?