From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Menu commands to M-x history? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:22:28 +0200 Message-ID: References: <7432.1248236149@olgas.newt.com> <7dbe73ed0907221134o1a1fe024k353b1a9a61482041@mail.gmail.com> <9D1E3CE97BF4491E973F872B00D6277D@us.oracle.com> <916D7A0558D14A809114127E47A21BB2@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248722579 1175 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2009 19:22:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:22:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Mathias Dahl To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 27 21:22:52 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MVVma-0007DF-IN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:22:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35377 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVVmX-0004fQ-Id for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:22:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVVmT-0004fB-NF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:22:41 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVVmP-0004eo-AY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:22:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39380 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVVmP-0004el-4x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:22:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:51373) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVVmM-0004EK-Lw; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:22:34 -0400 Original-Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.250]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVVmL-0000IW-Bp; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:22:33 -0400 Original-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b6so2970554ana.21 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:22:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=oz8iKZR25KeNZaauUR1Z/zGHt/xEbpQedJB4mx92hlQ=; b=jmXLn9GrEwhzL40bcT4/3PZNDZylvHzcx41byx0VOoxjtcwWFZx9DOqwewgKW7JUf7 1Hq7kI4IsVcDLSe9/0CiCc29RG2pu0BWDyjFTVd7Snz1jg5LfhZVLrqZR/LrJaJf6DU2 B0FjzJaLa/hRBa2y/jpzsZRE/2bfOLrs6IdMg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=pXFnYe5BtSFthpSR/G5c09i7HEl4OHglfqyzOaj9YwhEgVs+zw2RWi1Rq4KCHFTyuj 5gUv3YN/Gi7FSkpyIzCh3QDKwUU4KVwhY3kWBf+8aP8HIjIGlg4TUAdIkcw/EUuNosY4 FuuPZR3iuRNyYulZwbFezNgcHm7yaRsTF0BME= Original-Received: by 10.100.127.2 with SMTP id z2mr8811936anc.75.1248722548738; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:22:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Detected-Operating-System: by mx20.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113249 Archived-At: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Drew Adams wrote: >> > As someone else said, `M-x' is, well, for `M-x'-executed commands. >> >> Yes, Richard said that but I do not agree. The M-x history is >> for the users. > > And? Of course histories are for users. You said that this history is for just M-x history commands. That semantic is really a programmers semantic. The argument we want to use for the user interface is rather if it is useful for users to do a certain thing. >> Don't mix the programmer semantics with the user semantics unless >> there is a good reason to do so. Very often there is, but not in a >> case like this. > > What does that mean? How did I mix them? Or what non-mixing do you have in mind? > IOW, what is it that you are really trying to say? Really nothing more than that the argument the M-x history is for "M-x executed commands" is useless. It focuses more on the programming side than on the user. >> > That's important for users. >> >> Why is it important for users? > > See what was said previously. Noise reduction. If we want to put menu commands in M-x history then it is not noise. > Pertinence of history entries to > the task at hand. I can't see why that should exclude menu commands from M-x history. Do you do something very special when you use the menus that you do not do when you use M-x? > You know, we _could_ always use just `minibuffer-history', and have no such > specificity. But that is less useful to users. And why do you say this? ... ;-) >> > It is why commands executed using key bindings are also not >> > included in the history list. >> >> That is a totally diffirent story since it is a different context as I >> said before. You really do not need any of the commands you execute >> with a key binding in the M-x history. > > I think you do. But only on demand. I am surprised. It seems like a very minor case. >> Because it is intended to be helpful to newbies, Not to >> experienced Emacs users. > > I intend it to be helpful to both. If a newbie can learn `C-h k', then s?he can > learn a key to complete commands previously invoked from the menu. Nothing wrong with that of course. I just mean that there is not so very much to care about for old time users if commands invoked from the menus are put in the M-x history. >> In the cases that the menus are deep it can be very helpful to put the >> commands in M-x history IMO. And the other ones does not disturb very >> much since you either do not use them often or use a key binding for >> the commands. > > We agree that being able to access menu items via history can be helpful. We > disagree whether such access should be by default or on demand. Yes.