Re: Menu commands to M-x history?

[Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Drew Adams<drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
>> > As someone else said, `M-x' is, well, for `M-x'-executed commands.
>>
>> Yes, Richard said that but I do not agree. The M-x history is
>> for the users.
>
> And? Of course histories are for users.

You said that this history is for just M-x history commands. That
semantic is really a programmers semantic. The argument we want to use
for the user interface is rather if it is useful for users to do a
certain thing.


>> Don't mix the programmer semantics with the user semantics unless
>> there is a good reason to do so. Very often there is, but not in a
>> case like this.
>
> What does that mean? How did I mix them? Or what non-mixing do you have in mind?
> IOW, what is it that you are really trying to say?

Really nothing more than that the argument the M-x history is for "M-x
executed commands" is useless. It focuses more on the programming side
than on the user.


>> > That's important for users.
>>
>> Why is it important for users?
>
> See what was said previously. Noise reduction.

If we want to put menu commands in M-x history then it is not noise.


> Pertinence of history entries to
> the task at hand.

I can't see why that should exclude menu commands from M-x history. Do
you do something very special when you use the menus that you do not
do when you use M-x?


> You know, we _could_ always use just `minibuffer-history', and have no such
> specificity. But that is less useful to users.

And why do you say this? ... ;-)


>> > It is why commands executed using key bindings are also not
>> > included in the history list.
>>
>> That is a totally diffirent story since it is a different context as I
>> said before. You really do not need any of the commands you execute
>> with a key binding in the M-x history.
>
> I think you do. But only on demand.

I am surprised. It seems like a very minor case.


>> Because it is intended to be helpful to newbies, Not to
>> experienced Emacs users.
>
> I intend it to be helpful to both. If a newbie can learn `C-h k', then s?he can
> learn a key to complete commands previously invoked from the menu.

Nothing wrong with that of course. I just mean that there is not so
very much to care about for old time users if commands invoked from
the menus are put in the M-x history.


>> In the cases that the menus are deep it can be very helpful to put the
>> commands in M-x history IMO. And the other ones does not disturb very
>> much since you either do not use them often or use a key binding for
>> the commands.
>
> We agree that being able to access menu items via history can be helpful. We
> disagree whether such access should be by default or on demand.

Yes.