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From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Mathias Dahl <mathias.dahl@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Menu commands to M-x history?
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:22:28 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <e01d8a50907271222q605e580ep8fc0c51ca9ba2d59@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CD076EC8E52E49E68AE9EEA5DFD2B6FE@us.oracle.com>

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Drew Adams<drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
>> > As someone else said, `M-x' is, well, for `M-x'-executed commands.
>>
>> Yes, Richard said that but I do not agree. The M-x history is
>> for the users.
>
> And? Of course histories are for users.

You said that this history is for just M-x history commands. That
semantic is really a programmers semantic. The argument we want to use
for the user interface is rather if it is useful for users to do a
certain thing.


>> Don't mix the programmer semantics with the user semantics unless
>> there is a good reason to do so. Very often there is, but not in a
>> case like this.
>
> What does that mean? How did I mix them? Or what non-mixing do you have in mind?
> IOW, what is it that you are really trying to say?

Really nothing more than that the argument the M-x history is for "M-x
executed commands" is useless. It focuses more on the programming side
than on the user.


>> > That's important for users.
>>
>> Why is it important for users?
>
> See what was said previously. Noise reduction.

If we want to put menu commands in M-x history then it is not noise.


> Pertinence of history entries to
> the task at hand.

I can't see why that should exclude menu commands from M-x history. Do
you do something very special when you use the menus that you do not
do when you use M-x?


> You know, we _could_ always use just `minibuffer-history', and have no such
> specificity. But that is less useful to users.

And why do you say this? ... ;-)


>> > It is why commands executed using key bindings are also not
>> > included in the history list.
>>
>> That is a totally diffirent story since it is a different context as I
>> said before. You really do not need any of the commands you execute
>> with a key binding in the M-x history.
>
> I think you do. But only on demand.

I am surprised. It seems like a very minor case.


>> Because it is intended to be helpful to newbies, Not to
>> experienced Emacs users.
>
> I intend it to be helpful to both. If a newbie can learn `C-h k', then s?he can
> learn a key to complete commands previously invoked from the menu.

Nothing wrong with that of course. I just mean that there is not so
very much to care about for old time users if commands invoked from
the menus are put in the M-x history.


>> In the cases that the menus are deep it can be very helpful to put the
>> commands in M-x history IMO. And the other ones does not disturb very
>> much since you either do not use them often or use a key binding for
>> the commands.
>
> We agree that being able to access menu items via history can be helpful. We
> disagree whether such access should be by default or on demand.

Yes.




  reply	other threads:[~2009-07-27 19:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-07-20 23:05 Menu commands to M-x history? Lennart Borgman
2009-07-21  3:44 ` Bill Wohler
2009-07-22  1:43   ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-22  2:03     ` Drew Adams
2009-07-22  2:18     ` Lennart Borgman
2009-07-22  4:15     ` Bill Wohler
2009-07-22 18:34       ` Mathias Dahl
2009-07-27  1:47         ` Drew Adams
2009-07-27  9:51           ` Lennart Borgman
2009-07-27 15:48             ` Drew Adams
2009-07-27 15:59               ` Lennart Borgman
2009-07-27 16:21                 ` Drew Adams
2009-07-27 16:39                   ` Lennart Borgman
2009-07-27 18:57                     ` Drew Adams
2009-07-27 19:22                       ` Lennart Borgman [this message]
2009-07-27 20:26                         ` Drew Adams
2009-07-27 20:53                           ` Lennart Borgman
2009-07-27 21:16                             ` Drew Adams
2009-07-27 21:34                               ` Lennart Borgman
2009-07-27 21:47                                 ` Drew Adams
2009-08-01 20:20                                   ` Drew Adams
2009-08-04 17:23                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2009-07-27 22:00                 ` Mathias Dahl
2009-07-21 15:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-07-21 17:43   ` Lennart Borgman
2009-08-03 21:51   ` Lennart Borgman
2009-08-04 17:31     ` Sillyness (was: Menu commands to M-x history?) Stefan Monnier

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