From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Menu commands to M-x history? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:59:00 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87skgqu2ce.fsf@olgas.newt.com> <7432.1248236149@olgas.newt.com> <7dbe73ed0907221134o1a1fe024k353b1a9a61482041@mail.gmail.com> <9D1E3CE97BF4491E973F872B00D6277D@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248713522 701 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2009 16:52:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:52:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Mathias Dahl To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 27 18:51:55 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MVTQX-0005Q1-Lf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:51:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59743 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVTQX-0001Sm-1Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:51:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVSbV-00044C-B2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:59:09 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MVSbQ-0003xC-FH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:59:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47068 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MVSbQ-0003wj-75 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:59:04 -0400 Original-Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.246]:62963) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MVSbN-0008KR-QB; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:59:02 -0400 Original-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b6so2860956ana.21 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:59:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8gPPyJ3sA1sOCavwuLQvHtVBZbDVHCfqsTo+o9eH0DQ=; b=cawckIndfMCh3Jp9PeDuYd41CBc6kS5BF9+Mfqswgj3F0J6qxPDU3SAfQV06TEGe5f 7x8MWYG2xRxP9AVV5WLd5FMYwCNFAwLWx+EQtS/O852DU3z3DyjSoweSZF7vws06L4nI hvSu49egBcBboBcWcd2IU3X+ZEl2SONPANZRM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=JCWl3QrIFVSLrgEiNHA6nMexJ9p3dMKGDFiLcxAkeOYRh+5825Gb2jucuqhNoabCcv cj1VIO4VtHU+nwP1IIDnOzDn6+Iy/XJytOnjWo3Fkkzp524416jpOw2KsfMeyAjXSGuR zAQAsdL2H7vZfJQNJS2OOZJ3eP7lw3p6CKIF4= Original-Received: by 10.100.248.13 with SMTP id v13mr8501123anh.123.1248710340991; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 08:59:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9D1E3CE97BF4491E973F872B00D6277D@us.oracle.com> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113227 Archived-At: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Drew Adams wrote: >> >> > Perhaps a better way of learning what command is on a >> >> > button or menu item is to use help such as `M-x help >> >> > RET k RET'. >> >> >> >> I think that is enough too. >> > >> > I agree: `C-h k' or a tooltip is sufficient to show the >> > command associated with a menu item or button. >> > >> > However, it can also be convenient to be able to complete >> > against commands that were previously executed using a menu. >> > You might want to do this some of the time (but probably not >> > by default). >> > >> > FWIW, this feature is available in Icicles in the following way: >> >> So you think it is enough to not have the menu commands available in >> Emacs M-x history variable, but that it is good to have it available >> (in a different way) in your Icicles library? > > Just what is unclear about what I wrote? > > 1. I think C-h k or a tooltip is generally enough for seeing the command > associated with a menu item. > > 2. Nevertheless, it can also help sometimes to be able to complete against > command names corresponding to menu items. > > 3. Such completion should probably not be part of the normal (default) command > completion, for reasons already discussed (e.g. by Mathias). Matthias said: Quite often I execute the same M-x command over and over again, doing something else in between, and if what I did in between included executing some menu commands I might be annoyed to have to step back some extra steps in order to get at the command I want to run. Sorry Matthias, forgot to answer, but exactly why is it useful to distinguish between commands started from the menu and from M-x because of this? I don't believe that you think something like "ah, wait, now I will do the next command from the menus to avoid getting it into M-x history". Or do you actually do that? ;-) Drew, I think you see what I mean. This reasoning just gets overlay complicated to actually use IMO. Just putting the menu commands in the M-x history (+ displaying a comment about it) is simple, easy to understand and make the coupling between M-x and the menus visible to new users too. And it also have the advantage that it is much easier to redo commands that are rather deep down in the menus. > 4. It can help to make such completion available on demand during normal command > completion. That is, while completing a normal command name, hit some key to > complete also against menu-item commands already entered. > > 5. This suggests having a separate, more inclusive command history, which > includes menu-item commands - to be used only on demand, not by default. > > 6. I explained how Icicles handles this, as an example of what is possible. > >