From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Menu commands to M-x history? Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:05:45 +0200 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248131258 29439 80.91.229.12 (20 Jul 2009 23:07:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:07:38 +0000 (UTC) To: Emacs-Devel devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 21 01:07:31 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MT1xC-0004kY-A5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:07:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57440 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MT1xB-0004UN-Fv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:07:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MT1vc-0003uE-FM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:05:52 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MT1vX-0003s7-Hy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:05:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=37155 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MT1vX-0003s2-DV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:05:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com ([209.85.210.172]:35046) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MT1vW-0006GB-UP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:05:47 -0400 Original-Received: by yxe2 with SMTP id 2so4745591yxe.14 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:05:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4joH0AQ34d1K1UPgD4se4ew6racmvPrWE2QpgvMS3f8=; b=gW76Zyh9WWYjH/Au6XTR2Ust76ELJLzuh9s9J3gcrFcrWOK0vSfsnBtvCUxNOXqEFf szubP8N9CjU9YEuTusi2VNwp/McsT4HtKrfnfiFiUPHpdhlUJmMEswiCpSTEHwlnuVwt lAtKle3KBb+2JKPB47Kn9cm9+cxxsCR1AtwQU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=rbm4AKCm4oisEQ9BvdMmcpxpIOqKEzcr2t/2G6ieKDOCapumrimz/yiGwxhXRD9Gig QJqANqwXyELi328o8RurvKEvRO2qLZQcSFXj8f9ImOBhr51hOa6fSwc7s8bdqfpQaR9l ZALJhw6oBmoq+lnXj3+B8BamUr/pfD5SxV5is= Original-Received: by 10.100.194.7 with SMTP id r7mr2502327anf.37.1248131145608; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:05:45 -0700 (PDT) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112872 Archived-At: Menu commands are all commands that can be started from M-x. I think they should be added to M-x history. Users often uses menus to start commands because they do not know the command name. Menus are very good for them -- and for commands that we seldom use. (Advanced users may prefer a controller/view UI instead, like Drew has been trying to make with Icicles.) We have had a hard time to decide how the menus should look. There are now many very useful commands, especially for beginners, like rgrep/lgrep etc that we have not been able to place in the menus because we do not know where to put them. That is not very good for anyone of course, but worse for newcommers. One reason is the available space in the menus. They should not be too long and there should not be too many levels. These two constraints fight each other. I personally prefer each menu level to be not too long and good structured by dividing it into groups. In my opinion it makes it easier to quickly read them and search for commands. However making it menu level smaller makes the menu levels deeper instead. Some people have said that this makes it very inconvenient for things you use often. Adding the commands choosen from the menus to M-x history may make it less inconvenient. Now, if someone says it clutters the M-x history then I must ask if it is not cluttered already. What are those things that are there already when you start with "emacs -Q"? ;-) BTW I have lately seen some new kind of problems with the menus. I guess I am one of those that are most likely to see it, since my patches on w32 allows normal access to the menus. Lately I have seen things like is not defined. That looks bad to me. Anyone knows what is going on?