From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Infrastructural complexity. Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:29:31 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20090712180623.GA1009@muc.de> <87skgwb9na.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <1247784574.6302.83.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <1247787842.6302.90.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <1247793496.6302.112.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247794207 28658 80.91.229.12 (17 Jul 2009 01:30:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:30:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Juri Linkov , Stefan Monnier , Alan Mackenzie , Drew Adams To: Thomas Lord Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 17 03:29:59 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MRcGs-0005cW-LU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:29:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60739 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MRcGs-0003Kt-0h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:29:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MRcGZ-00033Q-UL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:29:39 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MRcGU-0002xB-Rc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:29:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=40188 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MRcGU-0002wq-LC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:29:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f219.google.com ([209.85.218.219]:41865) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MRcGT-0003d9-W6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:29:34 -0400 Original-Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so539901bwz.42 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:29:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CPq1BIhHVkK9M70AGDG1WGUTrgmV+2FAjFrEPUmRKVY=; b=ojN534Y+ksGyw4GLCx2ooRMq3+k8D8+/KC3P+WPw/XL+qA1hhZV8y1Q4mAVGa4vogQ uuDbUykmq1ybu7hO57mI9dWGBmAkPVcBCuS76t67Fh7VHDt1f+30IiAcVMybCA6cGsSu 7nvzxnmrI0ynuN8Apb4z5W5NO023j0ySvQk1M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=VqXf0q0zy+kP+dnxJdqJ6jEqx5lhByXIUWcA7bhGQlaMhd4oSm+bhfFAd49rZYACL2 3E4TNBMCWC+QsY63NQ+KucPAp6QDZXORMwcQxG3dUFaMoBrxSKGW6/tPEcUfH6Kzuj0Y 0iUd8mse/FGRiGSv0Mh39LsKjqdOo3ThWi85I= Original-Received: by 10.223.115.138 with SMTP id i10mr74664faq.82.1247794171923; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:29:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1247793496.6302.112.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112587 Archived-At: On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 3:18 AM, Thomas Lord wrote: > On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 02:30 +0200, Lennart Borgman wrote: >> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Thomas Lord wrote: >> > On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 00:54 +0200, Lennart Borgman wrote: > >> >> I am unable to understand the "four framelettes". Why not just let an= y >> >> window be a framelette if desired? > >> > I can't imagine a clean way for that to work >> > for two reasons. =C2=A0 First, it would allow unbounded >> > nesting of framelettes. > >> Why is that a problem? > > Now, what if the current window is underneath a hierarchical > list of 5 framelettes? =C2=A0I, the user, want C-x 1 to apply > to the third framelette in that list. =C2=A0 What then? > I can't think of any usable solution. =C2=A0How is a user supposed > to figure out, trivially, without stopping and solving a > slightly complicated puzzle, which window to select to > achieve that desired C-x 1 effect? Thanks. I see your point, however I expected the framelets border to be marked in some way. Your note about GIMP made me think of another, additional, way: Using a different background color for the active framelet. > Putting on my "dabble in mysticism" hat, there > are essentially three natural numbers greater than > 0: =C2=A0one, two, and "many". That is more about human couple relationship ... >> I am not sure I understand. I just think of it as you described it (on >> a general level). > > I don't see the "generalization" you are after. Just the level thing. > Another way to say why it is easier is that users don't > have to think very hard about "frame v. framelette". =C2=A0They > can just learn, as they have with so many other GUIs, that there > are these four special areas around the main content of a window-system > window (and perhaps "tear offs"). That might be a thing for the actually used user interfaces, but on the devel side I see no reason to put in that restriction. Rather it could be on option to set that restriction on the user side.