From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Infrastructural complexity. [Was: Blunderbuss ".dir-locals.el" raises everything in its path!!] Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:36:55 +0200 Message-ID: References: <20090712180623.GA1009@muc.de> <4A5C2C96.4080802@swipnet.se> <43507.130.55.118.19.1247580320.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <20090714151327.GA1718@muc.de> <53864.130.55.118.19.1247586358.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <87r5whgzvg.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <0C244EB2B99349238E281268B0339C72@us.oracle.com> <20090716200959.GA4298@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247776639 16475 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2009 20:37:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:37:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 16 22:37:12 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MRXhW-0006Rd-8i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:37:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42412 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MRXhV-0005sb-Mu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:37:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MRXhP-0005pt-5w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:37:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MRXhJ-0005n1-In for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:37:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55542 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MRXhJ-0005mt-FM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:36:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f219.google.com ([209.85.218.219]:40267) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MRXhI-0005qK-RX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:36:57 -0400 Original-Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so411309bwz.42 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:36:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rG16ksZOq/DErma2Rj8RUl9YAKJez1iY4z+Y6nsLhuI=; b=qc6ySZ+gEP6NqvaMoK5Kb63/dxXm2xdXPYCWT6VN2lct9Kj0/JmMf2Uh2eToEPucb+ KS4LxA4gYZGoWoq6GTWVsjjLxfxyy6ucGPKlino1p2XcfZdmjwK/EoSwrAp60/AuLDt+ O0G/Wxpg+LACn8RJJotuEwmLn/NIucJl5EkYA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=HWazr1oYxrbZpWlakJkFY4TfaFdZs66i83jdnli4ccHnhNZ2DmgyrihvKOVlkT6br8 8i9njJd3JBG6zQQ3U4IhF8gD3Dr/5l6bMOsXJ6Ekfykyi2fn8HG9KaAoXD8AVbx6gs+h 52t5yhvjqOnpXCTJuwCBubZjDQB5YaeVWz+g4= Original-Received: by 10.223.124.147 with SMTP id u19mr39736far.28.1247776615324; Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:36:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090716200959.GA4298@muc.de> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112552 Archived-At: On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hi, everybody! > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 02:38:35PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> >> I think `message' should be improved to collect all messages coming >> >> in quick succession and display all of them appended to the echo area= . > >> > Certainly not as the default behavior. Perhaps as an alternative behav= ior. > >> > There is lots of code, I'm sure, that depends on one message supplanti= ng a >> > previous message. That is, the user is _supposed_ to see only the late= st >> > message, not a concatenation of the last several messages. > >> Agreed, it needs to be a new function. > >> Maybe we could create a new function (notify-user MSG &rest ARGS) which >> would return immediately but display something in the echo area (or at >> the end of the minibuffer) for (at least?) notify-user-time seconds. > >> Several successive calls to it would just queue up messages that are >> later displayed in turn (probably with some sort of "compaction" >> feature so repeated messages don't bore the user to death). > >> Maybe it should be integrated/combined with the display-warning >> facility. > > I think I have to step in and ask what are we doing and why. > > > > The suggested functionality would be fine and dandy, but who really cares > about queueing up successive messages for pretty display? =C2=A0How many > not-yet users would say "here's something neat I really want to learn > Emacs for!"? > > It would add complexity to Emacs, and I suggest the increase in > flexibility is not enough to justify this. =C2=A0I hope I'm not sounding = too > cynical, but I started this thread almost defeated by complexity which > seems questionable. =C2=A0Each little added facility feels compelling at = the > time it's made, but somehow all the little bits gradually mutate into a > monster. =C2=A0I ought to know, I'm maintaining CC Mode. =C2=A0;-( I think that making message/error/warning/traceback better together decreases the overall complexity. It adds complexity to this part but lessens that in other parts where you need the integrated functionality. And getting better feedback about problems in the ui catches problems earlier and that reduces complexity when trying to find a problem.