From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: utf8 char display in buffer Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 03:43:06 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4A32D54D.1040405@mousecar.com> <87my8czzgx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1244857404 10402 80.91.229.12 (13 Jun 2009 01:43:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:43:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 13 03:43:20 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MFIHA-0006Nz-F3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 03:43:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49940 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MFIH9-0003c2-Md for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:43:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MFIH4-0003aJ-0W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:43:14 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MFIGz-0003Wx-JY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:43:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42952 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MFIGz-0003Wu-Db for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:43:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-bw0-f216.google.com ([209.85.218.216]:42059) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MFIGy-0002Fd-20; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:43:08 -0400 Original-Received: by bwz12 with SMTP id 12so234173bwz.42 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:43:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=RrvZledCthPNVGHBSeCa0QGKr8KD6zUP0fFYZ/U5mho=; b=cARHHPiOro26clGha9SbW41O7j9KFSwko/ybG8NlaE2J2gJeAu7aJ33uBx2ru63oWA F32BQeCZh7XabByPh/PQS/Vc6J4N2JNGLpkXeKvG8hLwDJ6ZMjVU0B+GSIXOAYLp4uyq pFqrPaux4MeOdQmEb5Xg5qE8ZbRCMy/ZbzFqE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hoJ/hnw7z+buqlEMrcnLT30q+ZHE/2vUq0huXBRVP85i+Xv3lsNVtc5LAlUyoukXLR Wanolw8HdaTGOuS2k4Aa3jB8qkBrha1abroafYEZR690B9ehb1Dasyi3YU5uBLUfHS2h BjNqHbuI9LF8y9XMkRZF/V6YrRqP8q+YN82Dg= Original-Received: by 10.239.152.193 with SMTP id w1mr315160hbb.41.1244857386820; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:43:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87my8czzgx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111472 Archived-At: On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:36 AM, Miles Bader wrote: > Lennart Borgman writes: >> Ken, I think this is a good idea so I have sent this along to Emacs deve= l. >> >>> Yet emacs puts a little box in the place of a character it cannot find >>> (or, per your explanation) possibly confused about. =C2=A0The fact rema= ins >>> that the little box is not a correct rendering of the code. =C2=A0It is= an >>> error... at least it is for me, because that's not what I typed in. =C2= =A0So >>> it is an error. =C2=A0As an error, there should be a corresponding erro= r >>> message, hopefully one (or more) which would help diagnose the problem. > > An "error message" _when_? =C2=A0Whether a character is displayable or no= t > isn't known until display time, and error messages for display issues > are generally a very bad idea. =C2=A0For some display errors, the display > code will put messages in the *Messages* buffer (though they aren't > displayed to the user), but even that must be done with careful > consideration; currently they typically indicate that something > seriously screwy is going on (and a non-displayable character, however > annoying, isn't "seriously screwy"). > > If an "error message" were displayed, what would it say? =C2=A0The only t= hing > I can think of is "no font could be found to display character FOO", but > that fact is already obvious from the little box. =C2=A0Given no extra > detail, is a message even useful? > > Maybe some sort of _once-only_ pop-up buffer note to the user saying > "little boxes indicate characters for which a font could not found; see > info manual section X.Y for details on blah blah"? =C2=A0I suppose that c= ould > help some people, but such a thing, even if once-only, would probably be > pretty annoying to non-complete-noob users, so ... Yes, I know you have to be careful with error messages in a case like this, but giving some type of information (like the one you suggested) the first time in an emacs session when such a little box is shown was what I had in mind.