From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1958: 23.0.60; org-mode does not honour shift-select-mode Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:56:30 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87r62y7jin.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <432B9329-1CE3-4D58-AD56-154C5DF4B6D9@uva.nl> <87mydmw0wx.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87tz7ux82y.fsf@gnu.org> <58010E7D-AF80-4562-952D-41B21FDF4AE7@uva.nl> Reply-To: Lennart Borgman , 1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1232490226 9911 80.91.229.12 (20 Jan 2009 22:23:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:23:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Bastien , Chong Yidong , 1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: Carsten Dominik Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 20 23:24:58 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LPP1k-0007Sj-Cs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:24:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40267 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LPP0S-0008J7-QG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:23:36 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LPP0O-0008G6-F1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:23:32 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LPP0M-0008Ev-RZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:23:32 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52424 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LPP0M-0008Eo-MI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:23:30 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:55808) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LPP0M-0004tv-5x for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:23:30 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KMNRgp013565; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:23:27 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n0KM55UE008836; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:05:05 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Lennart Borgman Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:05:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 1958 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,org-mode X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 1958-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1958.12324885956661 (code B ref 1958); Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:05:05 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1958) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 20 Jan 2009 21:56:35 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.158]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n0KLuVeM006655 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:56:32 -0800 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l27so1544726fgb.43 for <1958@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:56:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uDRcbLrCtZboBviAKtx2k6B3aifmKHps8EDAt9XMjKI=; b=iWVGzhK6Vb5ABHF09gjvDP0BOzCq+bgw0kM13ySgY0YuZeFHWNbZYpowYWwWETUw9N eCgqTA9SEIYZy7ZYYgb452x3Eb36hKILt2kVjerPCQNu6YCXHRio5PMnrSfumIcKwTMw k9kN8K9HDHX4n7SUWQI++oODEI9w3lgOY9bs8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Jsuh/JSMcesM2+xW9u8GSPZvzEhg6ame0a4f4DNVOuNvwYgcDYGgwT917OdhZl1NLx AotsO6TY2TFn2ncJ6Rn1c0DWWtpZrRo/1qwCFbIoQDn1uzQvxKP9S+BXppDZM4xGEc+3 xgntCd+nu48nWL2uejYbwMVRX06kE21Ostm+o= Original-Received: by 10.86.70.3 with SMTP id s3mr1940889fga.25.1232488590770; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:56:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <58010E7D-AF80-4562-952D-41B21FDF4AE7@uva.nl> X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:23:32 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:24341 Archived-At: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote: > > On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Bastien >> wrote: >>> >>> Lennart Borgman writes: >>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Chong Yidong >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I don't think consistency demands that S-arrow perform text selection >>>>> in >>>>> other major modes. So, unless you wish to change it, we can leave this >>>>> one alone. >>>> >>>> Once again then: I really prefer consistency. What do you mean with >>>> "other major modes"? I really thought that S-arrow should perform >>>> selection in all major modes since it is a very basic editing command. >>> >>> I'm all for consistency as well, but I don't think it implies that >>> S- should have exactly the same behavior in any major-mode, >>> or in any editing context. >>> >>> Org-mode distinguishes between several contexts: tables, lists, >>> properties, headline, etc. >>> >>> I think it's reasonable to expect S- keys to behave like in >>> any other modes outside of these specific contexts. For now this is >>> not the case, it returns an error like this: >>> >>> "org-shiftcursor-error: This command is active in special context like >>> tables, headlines or timestamps" >>> >>> IMHO, getting rid of this error makes Org-mode consistent enough with >>> other modes. >> >> Is not that counter-intuitive? For me it would be fine to use >> S- for something else than selecting in a context where >> selecting is not possible at all. But I wonder if there are any such >> contexts in Emacs ...? > > I think I have to agree here with Lennart. If a user expects shifted > cursor motion to do selection, a variable reaction of Emacs depending > on context will be confusing. > > For me this issue is that s-cursor commands do very valuable and > intuitive stuff in Org, and these commands are heavily advertised > in the manual and likely used by a large number of active users, who > would also be confused if we suddenly changed this behavior. > > In addition to that, Emacs's has alternative methods for > creating a selection that are far superior in my mind. Setting > the mark and then moving the cursor by any means, in > particular also search ans jumping to the beginning/end > of the buffer - I miss this so much in any program outside Emacs. I am not sure that matters here (even though it is good). > I therefore think it is the right decision to have a variable for > setting this and my personal preference would be to let me have my > current default setting in Org-mode which allows me to use these > valuable keys. > > After all, it is Emacs 23 that changes its default for these keys > from what we were used to, not Org. This is an unfortunate situation that is difficult to resolve without doing any (short term) harm. I suggest adding a note about S- (or even better S-) in the manual: (info "(elisp) Key Binding Conventions") This could make it easier in the future to follow the S-* convention. Whatever the decision for org-mode will be now I think it would be good to try to follow the S-* convention in the future.