From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs's popularity Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:59:08 +0100 Message-ID: References: <2103fd36-c5cd-4e8d-a74f-34697a369934@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <003101c954de$f95a3000$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87skop8cc7.fsf@iki.fi> <20081215210907.GB3848@groll.co.za> <87ljuh86il.fsf@iki.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1229382023 24012 80.91.229.12 (15 Dec 2008 23:00:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:00:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: "Richard Riley" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 16 00:01:27 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LCMRG-0006sg-8R for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:01:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55144 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LCMQ4-0007L0-7C for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:00:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LCMP9-0006eD-V6 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:59:11 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LCMP9-0006dI-AD for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:59:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48339 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LCMP9-0006d3-4Z for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:59:11 -0500 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.155]:64715) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LCMP8-0007WE-DE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:59:10 -0500 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so1423642fgb.30 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:59:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=aLLV0D6Jee8eVLNpqXhoVwSQhCynyWkD6+nU6+JfDxE=; b=JdSMnkRroqgPMUyR3H7a4mn7NBQwEUO78BgUZv3dbxMva1j96uRRLLjUB6ZLWa3pkS ZgDvQMg1W9dBCzx8mg2AyezprCc4OQQl8fMBNz5gbKfWOWPWv92VoGtET78oC0Z/4hzk h+OWVrHJVeN7LljWWG0nzq6/iLkPGj5L2e0VA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=dIZvxSXWLc41QEpo3dvZlFMdgXSmB0a44x7EMNRhtxzp4UMZstBn72FsGYk03Kqmyw 0rXDXgiOyosZbdwtOyH0fdS7cmywkTbSWbEuj1Eyc+LN09xSXdq4udrgFuM0AcuhldHS nMpNJ+twPED7NGH5A1lQ69WaJiDZO3NIn71xA= Original-Received: by 10.86.3.4 with SMTP id 4mr4127368fgc.44.1229381948611; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:59:08 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.86.74.11 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:59:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:60658 Archived-At: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Richard Riley wrote: >>> But Vim is not only installed; it's really used a lot. In Debian Vim has >>> always been a bit more popular than Emacs but in the first half of 2007 >>> Vim really got popular (around Vim 7.1 and Debian 4.0 release). This >>> "used actively" graph compares vim-common, emacs21-bin-common and >>> emacs22-bin-common packages: >>> >>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5thmmx >> >> That is a bit strange since the vi emulator Viper in Emacs is now so good. >> > > Not strange at all Lennart, Why would someone run the Emacs OS to run > emulated vim when they can run the real thing in 100th of the > footprint? Exactly why do you think the footprint matter? > The big problem is simply that Emacs is far less approachable than > Vim. No matter what people say, I know from personal experience that > people balk at the Tutorial which still emphasises center keys as > opposed to arrows keys. It might appear minor to the seasoned emacs user > but its not to the average new adopter who is used to standard Windows > type CUA editors. I consider myself a pretty decent Emacs user now and I > use the arrow keys ... > > In addition, and importantly, the type which stick with Emacs and know > how it works are far less likely to by flag waving fan boys - something > Vi/m has always had an abundance of.... > > > -- > important and urgent problems of the technology of today are no longer the satisfactions of the primary needs or of archetypal wishes, but the reparation of the evils and damages by the technology of yesterday. ~Dennis Gabor, Innovations: Scientific, Technological and Social, 1970 >