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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "Clément Pit-Claudel" <cpitclaudel@gmail.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:29:39 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dd87aed2-4e2d-47b3-a4b3-4de3de2b36b6@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <435fbbb8-6135-7cd9-d852-1da5f20f3f8f@gmail.com>

> > Deciding to "install" a package is somewhat analogous to putting
> > a library in your `load-path'.  That doesn't mean it gets loaded.
> > Activating a package (`package-initialize') is somewhat analogous
> > to loading a library.
> 
> Just the autoloads, though, right? Not like `load' or `require'.

I'm not sure what you mean, or which part of what I wrote you are
referring to.

My point was that for the "old" system there are two actions or kinds
of opt-in, before a library is "activated": (1) put the code in your
`load-path' and (2) load it.

Just putting a library in your `load-path' does not load it.

If a library has autoloads, and if those are processed, and if the
user then (at some point) triggers an autoloaded function etc., then
the library is loaded.  So there are actually 3 steps there.

Does `package-initialize' only process autoloads and not also load
a package?  I guess so.  And I guess that was your point/question.

> > My reply to that was to point out that being part of the core does
> > not imply activating.  I said that "lots of things are a core part
> > of Emacs and not extensions, but we don't necessarily turn them on
> > eagerly and by default."
> 
> I'm confused. We load their autoloads from loaddefs.el, don't we? Does
> package-initialize do more?

Maybe not.  It's a good point.

So maybe `package-initialize' is more analogous to functions such as
`update-directory-autoloads' and `update-file-autoloads'.

That does modify much of what I've said.  If "activating the package
system" means just processing the autoloads for packages that have
been "installed", so that it is like doing `update-directory-autoloads'
in each part of `load-path', then I guess I don't have a problem with
such automatic "activation".

(There remains, apparently, the question of how/when/where Emacs or
a user should invoke `package-initialize'.)



  reply	other threads:[~2017-08-24 18:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 106+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-08-20  2:38 Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Radon Rosborough
2017-08-20  6:10 ` Drew Adams
2017-08-20 17:20   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-20 18:09     ` Drew Adams
2017-08-20 18:39       ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-21  0:33         ` Drew Adams
2017-08-21  4:08           ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-20  8:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-20 17:21   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-20  8:15 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-20 17:21   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-20 14:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-20 16:37   ` Alex
2017-08-20 16:44     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-20 16:46     ` Yuri Khan
2017-08-20 16:54       ` Drew Adams
2017-08-20 17:18         ` Colin Baxter
2017-08-22 21:24       ` Alex
2017-08-20 17:22   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-20 17:36     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-20 17:54       ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-21 16:35         ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-21 16:43           ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-21 17:40             ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-21 20:33               ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-22  2:37                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-22  4:52                   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-22  8:41                     ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-22 16:02                       ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-22 14:33                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-22 18:09                       ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-22 21:01                         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-21  9:04   ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-21 14:31     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-21 16:34       ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-21 17:47         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-22 11:37         ` Timur Aydin
2017-08-22 16:58           ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-22 21:04             ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-23  5:17               ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-23 11:33                 ` Angelo Graziosi
2017-08-23 17:16                   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-23 13:28                 ` Drew Adams
2017-08-23 17:31                   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-23 18:00                     ` Drew Adams
2017-08-23 18:32                       ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-23 20:27                         ` Drew Adams
2017-08-23 20:59                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-23 21:21                             ` Drew Adams
2017-08-23 21:44                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-23 21:53                                 ` Drew Adams
2017-08-24  0:44                               ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-24  6:39                                 ` Drew Adams
2017-08-25  1:03                                   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-24 17:14                           ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                           ` <<83fucg99cj.fsf@gnu.org>
2017-08-24 17:44                             ` Drew Adams
2017-08-24 18:12                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-24 18:29                                 ` Drew Adams [this message]
2017-08-24 21:34                                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-24 21:40                                     ` Drew Adams
2017-08-25  1:04                                   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-24 18:14                               ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                               ` <<83bmn496js.fsf@gnu.org>
2017-08-24 18:36                                 ` Drew Adams
2017-08-24 18:57                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-25  1:04                                   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-25  1:04                               ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-23  3:15       ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-24 16:47         ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-24 17:48           ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-24 18:26             ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-25  3:52               ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-25  3:59                 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-25  4:39                   ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-25  4:45                     ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-25  4:48                       ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-25  6:47                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-25 11:51                   ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-25  1:04             ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-25  4:14               ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-25  4:28                 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-25  4:47                   ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-25 21:07                 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-25 21:34                   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-26 22:29                     ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-26 22:33                       ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-21 16:18     ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-20 19:09 ` Mark Oteiza
2017-08-23 15:57 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2017-08-23 18:17   ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-23 19:17     ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2017-08-23 19:38       ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-23 20:09         ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2017-08-24  0:13           ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-24 13:44             ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2017-08-25  1:04               ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-24 17:12           ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-23 22:30   ` Nathan Moreau
2017-08-24  0:54     ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-24 11:13       ` Nathan Moreau
2017-08-24 17:02   ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-24 17:52     ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2017-08-24 18:31       ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-25 13:48         ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-08-21  8:24 angelo.g0
2017-08-21 16:22 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-21 19:35   ` Angelo Graziosi

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