the -3 values your > 'frame-geometry' reports for external border sizes are not reproducible > here. My dot ctwmrc has these options commented out. They may explain the minus 3 pixel value detected. #UseThreeDIconManagers #UseThreeDWMap #UseThreeDBorders #UseThreeDMenus #UseThreeDTitles                                             Have you ever tried building > with GTK-3? I'm not able to use the gtk-3 build as it causes the tty/emacsclient session to lockup. The bug is documented. The gtk-3 build is the default option from pkgsrc. -- vl