From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 15:46:29 +0300 Message-ID: References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <70bb51fd-447d-928c-4d69-1c9673a44471@online.de> <871rnnvmdx.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pnb7sira.fsf@red-bean.com> <83zha8tluq.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9kwi6ta.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <83wo5ccgg4.fsf@gnu.org> <87lflshxtq.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <83mu68cbbb.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7wghxdz.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="38900"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: rms@gnu.org, andreas.roehler@online.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kfogel@red-bean.com, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp To: Sergey Organov , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 16 14:47:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZwE4-000A1T-2t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 14:47:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42416 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZwE3-0004VR-4N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 08:47:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49602) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZwD5-00044V-T1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 May 2020 08:46:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::332]:54653) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZwD5-0003iW-06; Sat, 16 May 2020 08:46:35 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id h4so4808983wmb.4; Sat, 16 May 2020 05:46:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3QclRYtuVGp+xTeWWJc7YmpD0BdBwKhaGC+2QYtHvIg=; b=idoUkWI/rv+H6vVFgB9rSUS6cMGFBcoKYLI4yqYQNCyPUmPHdTKg0SNRCsozQMDR1E 7fjoMOJdT7Smsfm2p1z13taot92kos6F2ThpA+yRNiFz4EJcIcKpw9bkc6agAnfA5ctl FKGZDnTusyde/WFD8VLDbHGD0ZvRa5y1LLve9/av7B/vc1hC7TES9KsrGXePXTUcxLrT S0Sl2+1bODRfuSId0fHaykTSCUZT/E86lF4ctnip2lkqwY3QUqX5jwfYwLR5N9YCHqfl rC7ZYLztKRB66SmXxBmSQnirUtjTnB4OsUqUcywjcTMRZS9648wAeidTbaEBmEF9z+3r dHlw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=3QclRYtuVGp+xTeWWJc7YmpD0BdBwKhaGC+2QYtHvIg=; b=hOQE1SawdQ7m9SoAodkaWRB/J8xypOpGYdyNXjNGwD5vAFsaq+E96DAECugAmdbKF4 kuQ/vpk7UdY7jlq3H6IxH9xZ9bU7emAo3T0fUipBGE2PmzFHZIJZHY7MaFoKzX2z3WuP fe6sMz8byh4piycT0zyQR6uZLKoyzTzIO3d1FNCGV8j9tusMmq6E33mFET7+ni0zCslI 6q+AqAesoj0dKnWZOijkoInxRcBqCR8HrHxlUjhFBKzdHKDRhhUj28M3N/NQIbcQpQPu akzPH/O/Kz42/qG3XWbDS52hWEWx76jKYl/qKJAR8ewYN0dRUu78gtWDMY6s5EIS09Tv kqgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530TSi6W7wg/bkW6BW9b9RJ++FyJT44C7VVWhA90LOkbF7yMEGVJ aNEOdtXfHkJuqCt3gLgT0GE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxhBjt/kejObReA6h3vQXJkYfNHOClK9MshQJIzZW1kDrn5vvOLtBAZW/IpkCiF9gezLMBmfQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:1b44:: with SMTP id b65mr9581263wmb.181.1589633192774; Sat, 16 May 2020 05:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a12sm7766001wro.68.2020.05.16.05.46.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 16 May 2020 05:46:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87h7wghxdz.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::332; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x332.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250483 Archived-At: On 16.05.2020 15:34, Sergey Organov wrote: >>>>> And here there are 2 more problems for newbies. They usually expect >>>>> pop-up/modal/ dialog to be thrown on them for anything but text input >>>>> or moving around. >>>> That happens in Emacs for some/many commands invoked via the menu bar. >>> Then this must be rather easy to achieve for keyboard induced commands >>> as well. >> Not really. When the user invokes a command from the menu, we have a >> clear signal that the mouse is being used, and therefore can display a >> GUI dialog without fear. But when the user types "C-x C-f", how can >> we know that he/she expects a dialog box and not a minibuffer prompt? > My argument was that newbie never wants minibuffer prompt, so this is > not an issue. I mean it'd always be dialog unless "newbie-mode" is > turned off. My anecdata shows otherwise: it's never been a problem personally. As for the newbies who want modal dialogs, surely they will use the mouse and the toolbar to invoke the corresponding commands?