From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20968: 25.0.50; Be able to specify the output directory for `byte-compile-file' Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 07:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <<23829743-922e-4304-8ab3-b762b8193860@default>> <<74y4iytdjg.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org>> <> <<83pp49zb03.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435935451 15160 80.91.229.3 (3 Jul 2015 14:57:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 14:57:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20968@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 03 16:57:13 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZB2Ou-00032h-Ed for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 16:57:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41554 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZB2Ot-0004tQ-Kk for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 10:57:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39126) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZB2Op-0004tJ-Do for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 10:57:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZB2Ok-0004IS-AO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 10:57:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:37387) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZB2Ok-0004IK-6r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 10:57:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZB2Oj-0005V0-MN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 10:57:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2015 14:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20968 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20968-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20968.143593536721078 (code B ref 20968); Fri, 03 Jul 2015 14:57:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20968) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2015 14:56:07 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38833 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZB2Np-0005Tt-Nf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 10:56:06 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:22162) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZB2Nm-0005TO-HD for 20968@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 10:56:03 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t63EtuDW006682 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jul 2015 14:55:56 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t63EtuUU029851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Jul 2015 14:55:56 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t63Eturl028185; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 14:55:56 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83pp49zb03.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:104656 Archived-At: > > I don't necessarily disagree with the first part. I won't be > > using this feature myself, in any case. >=20 > Who will? Perhaps someone like the user who asked how to be able to easily keep *.elc separate from *.el (without moving after compilation). > > Anyway, I won't argue strongly for this, but I also don't (yet) > > see it as something undesirable or unsurmountable. >=20 > What would be the reason for providing such a feature? (Yes, I've > read that discussion; no, I don't see why the user wanted this.) Well, there was the reason given by the OP, which you apparently reject. Flexibility is another reason. Why should the target dir be hardwired to the source dir? Testing might be a reason for the enhancement: quickly remove the *.elc dir from `load-path' to take byte-compilation complications out of the equation. Having different compilation dirs for different Emacs versions could be another argument for such flexibility. Is there a compelling reason, beyond "we've always done without this", not to let users specify the output dir? But I'm not here to argue about this. If you don't see the point of such an enhancement then just move on. Or seize the opportunity to instead rant about non-GNU Emacs forums... > If you dwell a lot on those sites, how about encouraging people to > use the Emacs forums, where they will get definitive answers, > instead of talking to random people (present company excluded) on > Stack-foo? If you visited emacs.SE and StackOverflow (tag `emacs') occasionally, you might observe that that is **EXACTLY** what I do do. Far more than anyone else, BTW. And I encourage them to file bug reports if they think they've found a bug or have an enhancement suggestion. And most importantly (IMO), I try to teach them how to, and I encourage them to, *ASK EMACS* first and foremost, instead of immediately asking questions in a knee-jerk way. Why not inform yourself a little before tossing out such advice? Amazing that you would try to pooh-pooh helping Emacs users, in any venu. Tell it to Stefan. Or Malabarba. Or any number of other people who try to help Emacs users on such sites. They are the same people (present company excepted) who try to help Emacs users on help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org etc. > I cannot for the life of me figure out why these sites are so > popular, Think harder. Find out more about such sites - how they work, how they don't work. > given that Emacs has such a helpful community and such > a good documentation. Fashion and bad habits are the only > explanations I came up with. Another explanation: Many people, especially young people, do not read documentation these days. Q&A seems easy, and "these sites" actually do do a good job of responding to questions. Like it or not. You can call anything like this (e.g., not being apt to read doc) a "bad habit". But the effect of community help on such sites is undeniable. And you might well be surprised at the 3rd-party Emacs code development that has come out of help provided on "such sites". You want to vent about such sites - fine. I have NO problem with that. This is not the best place for it, perhaps, but you are welcome to do it, if it makes you feel better. I filed this enhancement request because the suggested change sounds to me like it could be useful. So far, I haven't seen any reason expressed against it (beyond the fact that it hasn't been done before). But if you don't find it useful then don't bother with it. Simple. But I wouldn't mind an answer, for my curiosity: What's a good reason not to let users specify the output directory?