From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#36206: [PATCH] Change `user-error' docstring from "pilot error" to "user error" Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <87tvcsnwdf.fsf@gmx.de> <87pnngnvbi.fsf@gmx.de> <87lfy4nttc.fsf@gmx.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="212191"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 36206@debbugs.gnu.org To: Michael Albinus , Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 14 17:36:34 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hboFl-000t2D-Fh for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:02:18 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2t024w54j5-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:02:18 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0020.oracle.com (abhmp0020.oracle.com [141.146.116.26]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x5EF2Go9026064; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:02:16 GMT In-Reply-To: <87lfy4nttc.fsf@gmx.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4861.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9287 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1906140124 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9287 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1906140124 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:160562 Archived-At: > > Right, but we are now discussing the term "pilot error". > > Do you think that it is better than "user error"? If > > yes, why? >=20 > History. Community. Cultural background. "Pilot error" is better not for those reasons but because it more precisely (exactly) says what the cause of the problem is (as I said). But that's not important enough in this context to allow confusion by readers unacquainted with it. As for history, community, and culture - This is not much (if at all) about _Emacs_ history, community, and culture, IMO. The history, community, and culture where the phrase was born, nurtured, and raised is mainly a U.S. military-industrial one. There may have been a time long ago when coders as a social group (of men) were fairly close culturally to the military, the aerospace, and naval industries (the infamous m-i complex). (For decades more code was in Cobol than any other language, and not just because it is verbose. That may still be the case!) But that's less true now. Coders as a group are not so close to that world. It's still the case that inquiry into a plane crash will mention "pilot error", and the phrase is definitely known widely. But it's not a loss if we drop it in favor of the clear-enough "user error". Emacs will lose nothing, IMO, in terms of its history, community, or culture. It will gain by being more welcoming to users coming from different histories, communities, and cultures.