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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: "João Távora" <joaotavora@gmail.com>,
	"Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
	"Danny Freeman" <danny@dfreeman.email>,
	"Eric Abrahamsen" <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Subprojects in project.el (Was: Eglot, project.el, and python virtual environments)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 19:21:55 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <d33b7afc-64a3-138c-c89d-5492a9e18509@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86cz97jzpi.fsf@gmail.com>

On 28/11/2022 06:10, Tim Cross wrote:

>> OT1H, large projects are relatively rare. OT2H, having a need for subprojects seems to be
>> correlated with working on large projects.
>>
>> What is the common case, in your experience, and how is it better solved? Globally
>> customizing a list of "markers", or customizing a list of subprojects for every "parent"
>> project?
> 
> In my personal experience, sub-projects have been more about project
> structure and not size. I would agree they are more prevalent in large
> projects, but can exist in medium and even smaller projects.

Sure.

> I don't think I have a preference for customizing a list of markers or a
> list of sub project definitions per project. I suspect different
> approaches will work better in different scenarios and neither is a
> clear 'winner'. However, as pointed out by Stephan, terminology
> confusion/meaning may well be contributing to the confusion here. Not
> only am I unsure everyone is thinking the same thing when talking about
> sub-projects, I'm not sure everyone is even talking about the same thing
> when referencing 'project'.

I suppose another way to look at it is, subprojects could be defined by 
technical boundaries (e.g. this dir is a frontend SPA, and that dir is 
our backend), or by social (we have a monorepo, but this dir belongs to 
our team).

The former approach should be easier to support reliably using markers, 
and the latter -- not necessarily so.

But I'd be happy to find out that 98% of our users' cases can be handled 
with markers.

> I wrote a lot about how I use projects and sub-projects in my work flow
> and then realised it probably isn't helping that much. It struck me that
> perhaps the issue is that the notion of sub-projects isn't really that
> useful in itself and may actually be more detrimental than useful.

It all depends on the individual workflows, for sure.

> When you think about it, a sub-project is really just a more narrow
> project focus. A project is really just a collection of files and
> environment settings which can be considered, for some purpose, as a
> 'unit' in itself. It might define the set of files used when considering
> find and replace for a symbol, when looking for symbol completion
> candidates, or file/buffer switching, opening, linting, cross
> referencing etc. It may correspond to a VCS repository, but it may
> not. It could cut across repositories, or it could be made up of
> multiple repositories or it could simply be some bespoke virtual project
> concept specific to a particular use case.

Enviroment settings -- we do not support (yet?). But depending on the 
person and the goal, dir-locals.el can help quite well.

Regarding cutting across repositories, etc, there is a line for cases 
wre can easily (or with minimal customization) support ooutb, with 
auto-detection that a lot of the users prefer. Versus very custom shapes 
which require one to write a custom backend.

But if someone has a particularly handy way to define an 
arbitrarily-shaped project, they can submit that backend for inclusion 
as well. We could call it "free-form", or something.

> I guess what I want is the ability to define arbitrary collections of
> files and environment settings as a project, have a way to select/target
> a project and an API which various tools can use to get the files or
> environment settings to then operate on. Whether one project can be
> considered a sub-project of another project is less relevant compared to
> the ability to select/identify the target project. Automatic definition
> of projects based on VCS repositories is great and a real time saver,
> but the ability to define what makes up a project manually is also
> important. The ability of the system to automatically determine which
> project is 'active' (for example, based on the location of the file
> being opened) is good and having the system prompt you when it isn't
> clear or when there are multiple options is useful, but just being able
> to run a command to set the current project would also be
> sufficient. However, how one project relates to another project i.e. sub
> project, main project, etc, seem of limited use compared to just having
> the ability to select a sub-set of the files and environment settings of
> a project, whether we call these sub project or nested projects or
> whatever, seems of limited benefit.

Regarding the latter, there are a couple of requests now to be able to 
run a particular action (project-find-file or project-find-regexp) 
against either the current project or the "parent" project (determined 
by the locations of the root dirs), based on the prefix argument. That 
seems reasonable enough.



  reply	other threads:[~2022-11-28 17:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 139+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-11-16 18:37 Eglot, project.el, and python virtual environments Eric Abrahamsen
2022-11-16 22:24 ` Danny Freeman
2022-11-16 22:53   ` Eric Abrahamsen
2022-11-17 13:41     ` Danny Freeman
2022-11-17 18:06       ` Eric Abrahamsen
2022-11-17 18:48         ` Yuan Fu
2022-11-17 22:21       ` Tim Cross
2022-11-18  2:38         ` Phil Sainty
2022-11-18  7:43           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 13:55             ` Danny Freeman
2022-11-18 15:22               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 15:53                 ` Danny Freeman
2022-11-18 19:36               ` Eric Abrahamsen
2022-11-18 15:06             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-18 15:17               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 15:28                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-19  1:12             ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-19  7:42               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-19 13:06                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-19 13:14                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-18 18:31   ` João Távora
2022-11-19  1:13     ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-19  1:56       ` João Távora
2022-11-19 15:23         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-19 19:17           ` Danny Freeman
2022-11-19 19:49             ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-19 21:22               ` Danny Freeman
2022-11-20  1:51                 ` João Távora
2022-11-20 15:36                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-20 20:35                     ` João Távora
2022-11-20 22:05                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-21 13:45                         ` João Távora
2022-11-22 15:48                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-22 21:12                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-22 21:34                               ` João Távora
2022-11-22 22:00                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-22 23:23                                   ` João Távora
2022-11-23  0:03                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-23 13:57                                       ` Subprojects in project.el (Was: Eglot, project.el, and python virtual environments) João Távora
2022-11-23 20:33                                         ` João Távora
2022-11-24  2:49                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-24  8:42                                             ` João Távora
2022-11-24 22:17                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25 19:56                                                 ` Subprojects in project.el João Távora
2022-11-25 22:33                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26  0:00                                                     ` João Távora
2022-11-26  1:57                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26  9:23                                                         ` João Távora
2022-11-26 13:34                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26 19:36                                                             ` João Távora
2022-11-26  2:01                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26  9:24                                                         ` João Távora
2022-11-24  2:51                                           ` Subprojects in project.el (Was: Eglot, project.el, and python virtual environments) Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-24  6:23                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-24  9:01                                             ` João Távora
2022-11-24 22:11                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25  7:30                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-25 17:24                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25 19:45                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-25 21:57                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25 23:55                                                       ` Subprojects in project.el João Távora
2022-11-28  0:41                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26  7:26                                                       ` Subprojects in project.el (Was: Eglot, project.el, and python virtual environments) Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-02  1:32                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-12-02 14:16                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-12-02 15:08                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-12-02 15:37                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-12-02 15:44                                                               ` Subprojects in project.el Stefan Monnier
2022-12-02 23:26                                                                 ` João Távora
2022-12-06 14:36                                                           ` Subprojects in project.el (Was: Eglot, project.el, and python virtual environments) João Távora
2022-11-24  3:01                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-24  8:50                                           ` João Távora
2022-11-24 22:46                                             ` Tim Cross
2022-11-24 23:38                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25  7:07                                                 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2022-11-25 14:58                                                   ` Subprojects in project.el Stefan Monnier
2022-11-25 22:29                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26  2:59                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-26 12:30                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26 17:32                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-27  0:25                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25 20:32                                                 ` João Távora
2022-11-28  4:10                                                 ` Subprojects in project.el (Was: Eglot, project.el, and python virtual environments) Tim Cross
2022-11-28 17:21                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2022-11-29  9:56                                                     ` Subprojects in project.el João Távora
2022-11-29 18:40                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-29 22:21                                                         ` João Távora
2022-11-30  0:39                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-30  0:54                                                             ` João Távora
2022-11-30  0:57                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-30  1:18                                                                 ` João Távora
2022-12-02 22:47                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-12-02 23:46                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-12-03  7:09                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-24 22:58                                             ` Subprojects in project.el (Was: Eglot, project.el, and python virtual environments) Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25  2:38                                               ` Subprojects in project.el Stefan Monnier
2022-11-25 20:23                                                 ` João Távora
2022-11-25 22:23                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25  7:42                                               ` Juri Linkov
2022-11-25 20:27                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25 23:47                                                   ` João Távora
2022-11-25 23:58                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26  0:46                                                       ` João Távora
2022-11-26  2:07                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-25 20:16                                               ` João Távora
2022-11-25 22:44                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26  0:37                                                   ` João Távora
2022-11-26  2:05                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-26  9:42                                                       ` João Távora
2022-11-26 12:38                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-29 10:03                                                           ` João Távora
2022-11-29 10:17                                                           ` João Távora
2022-11-29 19:07                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-29 22:52                                                               ` João Távora
2022-11-30  1:10                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-27 19:25                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2022-11-27 21:43                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-22 23:53                                 ` "Backend completion style" as a first-class library. Re: Eglot, project.el, and python virtual environments João Távora
2022-11-23  1:45                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-25 13:16                                     ` João Távora
2022-11-22 21:40                             ` João Távora
2022-11-22 22:13                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-22 23:33                                 ` João Távora
2022-11-21 20:58                     ` Augusto Stoffel
2022-11-23  3:37                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-20 16:37                   ` João Távora
2022-11-21  7:54                   ` Eric Abrahamsen
2022-11-21 13:36                     ` João Távora
2022-11-21 15:41                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2022-11-21 16:49                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-21 16:49                       ` Eric Abrahamsen
2022-11-21 20:54                     ` Augusto Stoffel
2022-11-19 23:25           ` João Távora
2022-11-19 23:40             ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-16 23:18 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-17  1:14   ` Eric Abrahamsen
2022-11-17  6:47 ` North Year
2022-11-17 18:09   ` Eric Abrahamsen
2022-11-19 22:36 ` Stephen Leake

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