From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: MON KEY Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: persistent lisp objects Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 15:19:34 -0400 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1254597598 12003 80.91.229.12 (3 Oct 2009 19:19:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 19:19:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 03 21:19:50 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MuA8x-0005Ah-On for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 21:19:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41633 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MuA8w-0006Fl-Up for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:19:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MuA8r-0006Do-8w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:19:41 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MuA8l-00065k-Pt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:19:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33107 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MuA8l-00065I-KZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:19:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yx0-f191.google.com ([209.85.210.191]:58630) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MuA8l-0000xB-BC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:19:35 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yx0-f191.google.com with SMTP id 29so1012800yxe.14 for ; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 12:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.150.9.4 with SMTP id 4mr6763934ybi.343.1254597574948; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 12:19:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: cda81d8cd970368a X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:115883 Archived-At: On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > it essentially needs to be linked with Emacs (or XEmacs). So it's all > GPL in any case. And w/re to the GFDL? For example, wouldn't it be possible using this technique to assemble byte-compiled component symbols each which of itself contains only a portion of some documentation or documentation generating routine but which is only made manifest at compile time by virtue of this technique? If such is possible which license would best govern the assembly of and subsequent aggregated output from implementation of such a technique - GPL/GFDL or both? I ask because these types of persistence issues appear to show up in the GFDL faq w/re Java. I'm wondering if the pending integration of CEDET eieio might pose similar questions in the future. For example, eieio already provides some facility for persistent documentation. Combine that with CL style `#.' symbol dumping, this technique could pose myriad potential mechanisms for extending the self-documenting aspects of Emacs lisp. I've no idea if the technique Thierry presents is possible in other modern languages (braced or curly) but certainly this one does benefit from lisp's syntax and I suspect that historically similar approaches were made possible leveraging CL's CLOS. That said, CLOS doesn't (in recent times) do much double duty as "The one true editor". Likewise where CL and CLOS have existed in such roles it is doubtful that the GFDL (or equivalent) was a factor of any concern... Apropos of this, it is worth considering that the first lines of the Emacs manual begin: ,---- | You are reading about GNU Emacs, the GNU incarnation of the advanced, | self-documenting, customizable, extensible editor Emacs. `----(info "(emacs)Intro") Which is immediately preceded by the section which begins: ,---- | The purpose of this License is to make a manual, textbook, or other | functional and useful document "free" in the sense of freedom: `----(info "(emacs)GNU Free Documentation License") > Stefan s_P