From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Transposing words over middle words Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:26:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <871skywvp4.fsf@hornfels.zedat.fu-berlin.de> <83o9o2i4xz.fsf@gnu.org> <20171116152231522684703@bob.proulx.com> <23054.41962.848150.764633@mail.eng.it> <23054.42180.139282.82688@mail.eng.it> <6ec7af50-26c3-4a03-8fcd-d389a492db02@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1510939620 12115 195.159.176.226 (17 Nov 2017 17:27:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:27:00 +0000 (UTC) To: Rusi , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 17 18:26:56 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eFkPm-0002qr-OS for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 18:26:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47062 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eFkPu-0002qy-6V for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 12:27:02 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54582) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eFkPU-0002qp-Sw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 12:26:38 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eFkPS-0001SM-2a for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 12:26:36 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:30015) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eFkPR-0001RN-PP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 12:26:33 -0500 Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id vAHHQUHh011616 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:26:31 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vAHHQUKU002704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:26:30 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vAHHQTEk011409; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:26:30 GMT In-Reply-To: <6ec7af50-26c3-4a03-8fcd-d389a492db02@googlegroups.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4615.0 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:114938 Archived-At: > > > > C-u 0 M-t works fine. > > > > > > BTW, I'd argue that C-u M-t should work as well: currently it is > treated > > > like C-u 4 M-t, but I think it's a poor choice. > > > > Really? That a lone C-u means an arg of 4 is burnt into our muscle > > memory for decades. Compare with "C-u C-n". A command that receives > > a numerical argument normally treats all of its arguments as numbers. > > Breaking that in a single command sounds like a misfeature. >=20 > Org mode (at least) is full of functions for which C-u means change some > behavior (C-u C-u changes more) and has nothing to do with some magic > number 4 It's fine for `C-u' to be interpreted numerically (as 4) by any command. It's also fine for plain `C-u' to have a different behavior from `C-u 4' or `M-4' for any given command. As long as the doc string makes the prefix arg possibilities clear. The fact that `C-u', when interpreted numerically, is "burnt into our muscle memory" is important. But it is only important for commands that interpret the prefix arg only numerically, and do not interpret plain `C-u' in some other way. The ability to provide different behaviors for plain `C-u', plain `C-u C-u', plain `C-u C-u C-u', and plain `-' is important - just as important as the ability to=20 give different behaviors to a numeric prefix arg for > 0, =3D 0, < 0, =3D> 0, <=3D 0 cases. It is wonderful that Emacs lets a command let users distinguish `-' from `-1', just as it can let users distinguish `-1' from `-2'. This not an argument that commands should always or often provide many, many alternative behaviors via a prefix arg. It's an argument that they should be able to (and they are able to) use all the various raw prefix-arg possibilities however they want. There are plenty of commands for which a prefix arg is not at all used numerically - commands for which a numeric interpretation has no meaning. Not all commands are like motion commands such as `C-n'. Even commands that can interpret a prefix arg numerically can sometimes benefit from providing additional interpretations for plain `C-u' etc.