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* Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
@ 2012-02-03  4:38 Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-03  7:10 ` Bob Proulx
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Angel de Vicente @ 2012-02-03  4:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Hi,

I run Emacs in text mode, inside GNUScreen, running in a
gnome-terminal. As a result, many key combinations don't get sent to
Emacs properly. For example, M-SPC gets to Emacs as C-M-j. Since I run
Emacs always like this, and basically I live inside Emacs, I would be
willing to spend some time trying to find a way out of this
problem. Searching the web has not really helped much... 

Any help on where I should be looking? 

Thanks,
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  4:38 Angel de Vicente
@ 2012-02-03  7:10 ` Bob Proulx
  2012-02-03  7:33   ` 郭晓峰
                     ` (2 more replies)
  2012-02-03  7:48 ` Tassilo Horn
  2012-02-03  7:50 ` Jiaxin Cao
  2 siblings, 3 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bob Proulx @ 2012-02-03  7:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Angel de Vicente; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

Angel de Vicente wrote:
> I run Emacs in text mode, inside GNUScreen, running in a
> gnome-terminal. As a result, many key combinations don't get sent to
> Emacs properly. For example, M-SPC gets to Emacs as C-M-j. Since I run
> Emacs always like this, and basically I live inside Emacs, I would be
> willing to spend some time trying to find a way out of this
> problem. Searching the web has not really helped much... 
> 
> Any help on where I should be looking? 

Since the problem you described is with the terminal emulator that you
described the place to fix it would seem to be in the terminal
emulator.  It would seem that gnome-terminal is the deficient code in
the path between your keyboard and emacs.

For what it is worth I live inside emacs inside an xterm and M-SPC is
propagated correctly by xterm.  I do have "Meta Sends Escape"
(XTerm*metaSendsEscape:true) configured in my Xresources for xterm.

Perhaps using xterm would be a solution for you?

Bob



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  7:10 ` Bob Proulx
@ 2012-02-03  7:33   ` 郭晓峰
  2012-02-03  7:47     ` Philipp Haselwarter
  2012-02-03  9:42     ` Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-03  9:40   ` Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-28 18:32   ` Oleksandr Gavenko
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: 郭晓峰 @ 2012-02-03  7:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bob Proulx, Angel de Vicente, help-gnu-emacs

I am using xterm-extras.el
http://www.dur.ac.uk/p.j.heslin/Software/Emacs/Download/xterm-extras.el

And there are other mapping to simplify your works.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> wrote:
> Angel de Vicente wrote:
>> I run Emacs in text mode, inside GNUScreen, running in a
>> gnome-terminal. As a result, many key combinations don't get sent to
>> Emacs properly. For example, M-SPC gets to Emacs as C-M-j. Since I run
>> Emacs always like this, and basically I live inside Emacs, I would be
>> willing to spend some time trying to find a way out of this
>> problem. Searching the web has not really helped much...
>>
>> Any help on where I should be looking?
>
> Since the problem you described is with the terminal emulator that you
> described the place to fix it would seem to be in the terminal
> emulator.  It would seem that gnome-terminal is the deficient code in
> the path between your keyboard and emacs.
>
> For what it is worth I live inside emacs inside an xterm and M-SPC is
> propagated correctly by xterm.  I do have "Meta Sends Escape"
> (XTerm*metaSendsEscape:true) configured in my Xresources for xterm.
>
> Perhaps using xterm would be a solution for you?
>
> Bob
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  7:33   ` 郭晓峰
@ 2012-02-03  7:47     ` Philipp Haselwarter
  2012-02-03  9:44       ` Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-03  9:42     ` Angel de Vicente
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Philipp Haselwarter @ 2012-02-03  7:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

fwiw, here's the section of my key-config dealing with terminal
emulators, cascaded screen etc.

#+begin_src elisp
;; {{{2 input quirks

;; gnome-terminal 3.0.1 + screen 4.01.00devel (GNU8cf5efc) 2-May-06 on nzebook
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 3 A") [M-up])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 3 B") [M-down])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 3 C") [M-right])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 3 D") [M-left])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 7 A") [C-M-up])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 7 B") [C-M-down])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 7 C") [C-M-right])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 7 D") [C-M-left])
;; terminal 0.4.7 (Xfce 4.8.0) +
;; screen 4.01.00devel (GNU8cf5efc) 2-May-06 on nzebook
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-O a") (kbd "C-<up>"))
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-O b") (kbd "C-<down>"))
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-O c") (kbd "C-<right>"))
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-O d") (kbd "C-<left>"))
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 5 A") [C-up])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 5 B") [C-down])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 5 C") [C-right])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ 1 ; 5 D") [C-left])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ a") [S-up])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ b") [S-down])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ c") [S-right])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ d") [S-left])
;; urxvt v9.11 - released: 2011-05-02 +
;; screen 4.01.00devel (GNU8cf5efc) 2-May-06 on nzebook
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-O A") [M-up])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-O B") [M-down])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-O C") [M-right])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-O D") [M-left])
;; urxvt v9.11 - released: 2011-05-02
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-[ A") [M-up])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-[ B") [M-down])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-[ C") [M-right])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-[ D") [M-left])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-O a") [C-M-up])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-O b") [C-M-down])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-O c") [C-M-right])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "ESC M-O d") [C-M-left])

;; urxvt v9.12 - released: 2011-06-29, ssh
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ a") [S-up])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ b") [S-down])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ c") [S-right])
(define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-[ d") [S-left])

;; (define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-O 3 A") [M-up])
;; (define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-O 3 B") [M-down])
;; (define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-O 3 C") [M-right])
;; (define-key input-decode-map (kbd "M-O 3 D") [M-left])
#+end_src

It feels a bit kludgy, but well, it works…

-- 
Philipp Haselwarter




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  4:38 Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-03  7:10 ` Bob Proulx
@ 2012-02-03  7:48 ` Tassilo Horn
  2012-02-03  9:47   ` Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-03 12:25   ` Peter Dyballa
  2012-02-03  7:50 ` Jiaxin Cao
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Tassilo Horn @ 2012-02-03  7:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Angel de Vicente <angelv@iac.es> writes:

Hi Angel,

> I run Emacs in text mode, inside GNUScreen, running in a
> gnome-terminal. As a result, many key combinations don't get sent to
> Emacs properly. For example, M-SPC gets to Emacs as C-M-j. Since I run
> Emacs always like this, and basically I live inside Emacs, I would be
> willing to spend some time trying to find a way out of this
> problem. Searching the web has not really helped much...
>
> Any help on where I should be looking? 

I use GNOME terminal (3.2.1), too, and M-SPC works just fine.
Basically, mostly all keybindings work just fine, except some that
contain non-alphanumeric characters, e.g., C-< is interpreted as just <,
C-? is interpreted as DEL (!)...

Bye,
Tassilo




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* RE: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  4:38 Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-03  7:10 ` Bob Proulx
  2012-02-03  7:48 ` Tassilo Horn
@ 2012-02-03  7:50 ` Jiaxin Cao
  2012-02-03 19:58   ` Bob Proulx
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Jiaxin Cao @ 2012-02-03  7:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'Angel de Vicente', help-gnu-emacs

Why not use a GUI based emacs?

-----Original Message-----
From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+jiaxin.cao=gmail.com@gnu.org [mailto:help-gnu-emacs-bounces+jiaxin.cao=gmail.com@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Angel de Vicente
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 12:38 PM
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?

Hi,

I run Emacs in text mode, inside GNUScreen, running in a
gnome-terminal. As a result, many key combinations don't get sent to
Emacs properly. For example, M-SPC gets to Emacs as C-M-j. Since I run
Emacs always like this, and basically I live inside Emacs, I would be
willing to spend some time trying to find a way out of this
problem. Searching the web has not really helped much... 

Any help on where I should be looking? 

Thanks,
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  7:10 ` Bob Proulx
  2012-02-03  7:33   ` 郭晓峰
@ 2012-02-03  9:40   ` Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-03 19:53     ` Bob Proulx
  2012-02-28 18:32   ` Oleksandr Gavenko
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Angel de Vicente @ 2012-02-03  9:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Hi,

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:
> For what it is worth I live inside emacs inside an xterm and M-SPC is
> propagated correctly by xterm.  I do have "Meta Sends Escape"
> (XTerm*metaSendsEscape:true) configured in my Xresources for xterm.
>
> Perhaps using xterm would be a solution for you?

I tried, and it certainly was more promising (out-of-the-box) than
gnome-terminal, but not all combinations were propagated correctly, and
when I added gnu screen, then things got pretty bad again, so I was
hoping for a way to correct all the keymappings in some other way.

Thanks,
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  7:33   ` 郭晓峰
  2012-02-03  7:47     ` Philipp Haselwarter
@ 2012-02-03  9:42     ` Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-03 18:30       ` 郭晓峰
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Angel de Vicente @ 2012-02-03  9:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Hi,

郭晓峰 <lamuguo@gmail.com> writes:

> I am using xterm-extras.el
> http://www.dur.ac.uk/p.j.heslin/Software/Emacs/Download/xterm-extras.el
>
> And there are other mapping to simplify your works.

thanks, I will give it a try. Do you find that all key combinations work
this way? Did you ever try inside a gnu screen session?

Thanks,
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  7:47     ` Philipp Haselwarter
@ 2012-02-03  9:44       ` Angel de Vicente
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Angel de Vicente @ 2012-02-03  9:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Hi,

Philipp Haselwarter <philipp.haselwarter@gmx.de> writes:

> fwiw, here's the section of my key-config dealing with terminal
> emulators, cascaded screen etc.

[...]

> It feels a bit kludgy, but well, it works…

Great. If I don't find any other way, I think this should do it. I guess
I can just incrementally build the list of sequences as the need
arises, and soon I will have all the correct keymappings for my
environment. 

Cheers,
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  7:48 ` Tassilo Horn
@ 2012-02-03  9:47   ` Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-03 12:25   ` Peter Dyballa
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Angel de Vicente @ 2012-02-03  9:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Hi,

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:
> I use GNOME terminal (3.2.1), too, and M-SPC works just fine.
> Basically, mostly all keybindings work just fine, except some that
> contain non-alphanumeric characters, e.g., C-< is interpreted as just <,
> C-? is interpreted as DEL (!)...

I didn't realize I was using such an outdated gnome-terminal version
(2.32.1). I guess it is time to upgrade...

Thanks,
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  7:48 ` Tassilo Horn
  2012-02-03  9:47   ` Angel de Vicente
@ 2012-02-03 12:25   ` Peter Dyballa
  2012-02-03 20:03     ` Tassilo Horn
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Peter Dyballa @ 2012-02-03 12:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tassilo Horn; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs


Am 3.2.2012 um 08:48 schrieb Tassilo Horn:

> C-? is interpreted as DEL (!)...

That's correct behaviour. C-? is used as DEL since decades in GNU Emacs. At least when run in real terminals...

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

  Pete

If all else fails read the instructions.
				- Donald Knuth




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  9:42     ` Angel de Vicente
@ 2012-02-03 18:30       ` 郭晓峰
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: 郭晓峰 @ 2012-02-03 18:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Angel de Vicente; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

I used tmux, it works. But you need to makes sure your terminal
forward the keybinding as you want. For double checking about this,
you can install "libncurses", and write some code like in my post
(http://setter.blogspot.com/2012/01/macremote-emacs.html) to make
sure.

Good luck

Best Regards,
Xiaofeng

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Angel de Vicente <angelv@iac.es> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 郭晓峰 <lamuguo@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I am using xterm-extras.el
>> http://www.dur.ac.uk/p.j.heslin/Software/Emacs/Download/xterm-extras.el
>>
>> And there are other mapping to simplify your works.
>
> thanks, I will give it a try. Do you find that all key combinations work
> this way? Did you ever try inside a gnu screen session?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Ángel de Vicente
> http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/
>
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  9:40   ` Angel de Vicente
@ 2012-02-03 19:53     ` Bob Proulx
  2012-02-04  0:10       ` Angel de Vicente
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bob Proulx @ 2012-02-03 19:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Angel de Vicente, help-gnu-emacs

Angel de Vicente wrote:
> Bob Proulx writes:
> > For what it is worth I live inside emacs inside an xterm and M-SPC is
> > propagated correctly by xterm.  I do have "Meta Sends Escape"
> > (XTerm*metaSendsEscape:true) configured in my Xresources for xterm.
> >
> > Perhaps using xterm would be a solution for you?
> 
> I tried, and it certainly was more promising (out-of-the-box) than
> gnome-terminal, but not all combinations were propagated correctly,

Oh well.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

> and when I added gnu screen, then things got pretty bad again,

I use screen a lot too but haven't run into key issues.

Out of curiosity, what cases did you encounter that were problematic?

> so I was hoping for a way to correct all the keymappings in some
> other way.

Of course!  Good luck in your search.  I will be interested to hear
of your results.

Bob



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  7:50 ` Jiaxin Cao
@ 2012-02-03 19:58   ` Bob Proulx
  2012-02-03 20:12     ` Tassilo Horn
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bob Proulx @ 2012-02-03 19:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Jiaxin Cao wrote:
> Angel de Vicente wrote:
> > I run Emacs in text mode, inside GNUScreen, running in a
>
> Why not use a GUI based emacs?

One reason is because logging in over a high latency connection to a
server on the other side of the world and trying to throw the X11
display back over the very slow global Internet is a test of patience.
Not to mention other issues such as those of security.  Using a text
terminal is much more efficient of bandwidth making the interactive
response fast and just the right solution.

Bob



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03 12:25   ` Peter Dyballa
@ 2012-02-03 20:03     ` Tassilo Horn
  2012-02-03 22:09       ` Peter Dyballa
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Tassilo Horn @ 2012-02-03 20:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE> writes:

>> C-? is interpreted as DEL (!)...
>
> That's correct behaviour. C-? is used as DEL since decades in GNU
> Emacs. At least when run in real terminals...

That's possible and one major reason I seldomly use emacs(client) in a
terminal for anything more than a quick edit.  I've bound frequently
used commands to C-<non-alnum-key> bindings, because those are mostly
undefined by default.  But then it's a pain for me to have them not
available in terminal emacsen.

Bye,
Tassilo




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
@ 2012-02-03 20:09 Silvio Levy
  2012-02-03 22:54 ` Angel de Vicente
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Silvio Levy @ 2012-02-03 20:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bob Proulx; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs


> > Why not use a GUI based emacs?

> One reason is because logging in over a high latency connection to a
> server on the other side of the world and trying to throw the X11
> display back over the very slow global Internet is a test of patience.

I can attest that for remote editing -- even across town in one of the
most technologically enabled areas of the US -- X emacs is less
satisfactory than emacs in a text terminal.

Silvio





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03 19:58   ` Bob Proulx
@ 2012-02-03 20:12     ` Tassilo Horn
  2012-02-03 20:37       ` Bob Proulx
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Tassilo Horn @ 2012-02-03 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

>> Why not use a GUI based emacs?
>
> One reason is because logging in over a high latency connection to a
> server on the other side of the world and trying to throw the X11
> display back over the very slow global Internet is a test of patience.

Yes, X11 forwarding is clearly not the way to go.  But why not open
files on the remote server using TRAMP which comes with emacs?
Similarly, you can have many remote shell buffers as well.  That works
very good for me.  Hey, I even read PDF files and view images on remote
machines using TRAMPed dired, doc-view, and image-mode.

Bye,
Tassilo




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03 20:12     ` Tassilo Horn
@ 2012-02-03 20:37       ` Bob Proulx
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bob Proulx @ 2012-02-03 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Tassilo Horn wrote:
> Bob Proulx writes:
> >> Why not use a GUI based emacs?
> >
> > One reason is because logging in over a high latency connection to a
> > server on the other side of the world and trying to throw the X11
> > display back over the very slow global Internet is a test of patience.
> 
> Yes, X11 forwarding is clearly not the way to go.

I don't even install X11 libraries on server machines.

And I use text consoles for the machine near my elbow too.  The
overhead of starting up X is significant.  Text mode with a
conservative startup customization will be almost instantaneous.

> But why not open files on the remote server using TRAMP which comes
> with emacs?

First because that would require a second window and I would need to
switch back and forth between my remote logged in terminal window and
my local emacs editing window.  Sure if you want to keep switching
windows all of the time then many people keep an emacs server running
continuously.  That is common.  That's fine.  But if you just need to
log into a system and do some light weight administration then you
don't want to have to set up a continuously running emacs server on
your desktop first.  In that case you just want to edit a file.  Sure
I could [n]vi the file for a quick edit but I want to use emacs to
edit the file not vi or nano or other editor.  Therefore I will log
in, do what I need to do, use emacs to edit files, and then log out.

Secondly for reasons of speed.  Even on fast machines and fast
connections using tramp to edit a file can take many seconds while it
is setting up the connection.  And if this was a quick one-off task
then I may not have set up my ssh-agent for ssh rsa keys yet.  That
will require an additional pause while I enter my ssh rsa passphrase
again.  In the time it takes to do this I may have already finished
using emacs to edit the file in text mode, done whatever else I needed
to do, logged out and moved on.  But if I am going to sit for hours
working on a task then the overhead of starting tramp is insignificant
and the benefits you mention of multiple buffers and so forth work out
in favor of doing that instead.

> Similarly, you can have many remote shell buffers as well.  That
> works very good for me.  Hey, I even read PDF files and view images
> on remote machines using TRAMPed dired, doc-view, and image-mode.

That is all perfectly understandable and reasonable for the types of
tasks that you are doing.  But not everyone has the same work to do.
Other tasks require other work flows.  For example I can't recall a
time that I have ever looked at a pdf document on a remote machine
that I had logged into remotely to do some system administration work.
That case of having pdf documentation to which I would need to refer
to would just would never occur.  I would always be looking at those
types of documents locally on my desktop.  And would also have the web
available for better documentation.

In a different venue some people would suggest using sshfs to mount a
remote system in a local userland filesystem.  Then all remote files
appear to be local.  At the end of the task the filesystem can be
unmounted.  That is yet another different way of working that works
quite well.

Bob



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
@ 2012-02-03 20:52 Silvio Levy
  2012-02-03 21:06 ` Tassilo Horn
  2012-02-13 15:21 ` Ken Goldman
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Silvio Levy @ 2012-02-03 20:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tassilo Horn; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs


> Yes, X11 forwarding is clearly not the way to go.  But why not open
> files on the remote server using TRAMP which comes with emacs?

In my case, the answer is that editing files is only part of what I do
remotely. I keep an ssh window open on the remote host anyway; it
makes little sense to then use a *local* invocation of emacs to open a
remote file (with the corresponding overhead of transfer protocols,
mimencode and all that jazz). 

Conceptually, too, it's cleaner if each of my (color-coded) text
windows is acting on a single host.

TRAMP sounds terrific, but it seems to be meant for a different sort
of workflow.

Silvio





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03 20:52 Silvio Levy
@ 2012-02-03 21:06 ` Tassilo Horn
  2012-02-13 15:21 ` Ken Goldman
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Tassilo Horn @ 2012-02-03 21:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Silvio Levy; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

Silvio Levy <levy@msri.org> writes:

>> Yes, X11 forwarding is clearly not the way to go.  But why not open
>> files on the remote server using TRAMP which comes with emacs?
>
> In my case, the answer is that editing files is only part of what I do
> remotely. I keep an ssh window open on the remote host anyway; it
> makes little sense to then use a *local* invocation of emacs to open a
> remote file (with the corresponding overhead of transfer protocols,
> mimencode and all that jazz).

Yes, I frequently keep a TRAMP dired or shell buffer open on remote
hosts.  In such a buffer, even completion after C-x C-f defaults to the
remote directory of the dired current buffer or the shell buffers cwd.

> Conceptually, too, it's cleaner if each of my (color-coded) text
> windows is acting on a single host.

You could use one frame per host, and also have the frames colored
differently.  But I don't want to evangelize anyone.  I was just curious
why many experienced emacs users don't use TRAMP.  In my experience, it
enormously matured over the last years from a slow and flaky
implementation of a good idea to a highly usable and convenient tool.

Bye,
Tassilo



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03 20:03     ` Tassilo Horn
@ 2012-02-03 22:09       ` Peter Dyballa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Peter Dyballa @ 2012-02-03 22:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tassilo Horn; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs


Am 3.2.2012 um 21:03 schrieb Tassilo Horn:

> I've bound frequently
> used commands to C-<non-alnum-key> bindings, because those are mostly
> undefined by default.  But then it's a pain for me to have them not
> available in terminal emacsen.

Because the ASCII "protocol" is so limited. Would 8-bit controls give you more? (Well, another 32...) You would then need to press the Esc key many times...

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

  Pete

Wer nichts zu verbergen hat, hat schon alles verloren.
				(Juli Zeh)




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03 20:09 Silvio Levy
@ 2012-02-03 22:54 ` Angel de Vicente
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Angel de Vicente @ 2012-02-03 22:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Hi,

Silvio Levy <levy@msri.org> writes:

>> > Why not use a GUI based emacs?
>
>> One reason is because logging in over a high latency connection to a
>> server on the other side of the world and trying to throw the X11
>> display back over the very slow global Internet is a test of patience.
>
> I can attest that for remote editing -- even across town in one of the
> most technologically enabled areas of the US -- X emacs is less
> satisfactory than emacs in a text terminal.

In my case, more than a matter of speed is a matter of convenience
(though speed also counts). At work I fire up a gnu screen session, and
inside it I have 5-6 'terminals', all running emacsclients giving me
different aspects of my work (mail, agenda, documentation, programming,
other, etc.). When I go to another office, home, etc. I just connect
through ssh to my workstation, reattach to gnu screen, and I have
*exactly* the same environment I was using at my office. I can do some
work, and next day at my office I'm exactly where I left it at home. For
me this is invaluable... (I have tried doing the same with xpra and
Emacs in X, but then the speed was the problem...).

Cheers,
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03 19:53     ` Bob Proulx
@ 2012-02-04  0:10       ` Angel de Vicente
  2012-02-28 18:40         ` Oleksandr Gavenko
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Angel de Vicente @ 2012-02-04  0:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bob Proulx; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8, Size: 1290 bytes --]

Hi,

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:
>> and when I added gnu screen, then things got pretty bad again,
>
> I use screen a lot too but haven't run into key issues.
>
> Out of curiosity, what cases did you encounter that were problematic?

Right now I'm using a lot org-mode, so I would like to be able to send
M-SPC and C-M-SPC to Emacs.

With my versions of gnome-terminal and screen M-SPC and C-M-SPC get to Emacs as
C-M-j (for the fist one I can use ESC-SPC, but ideally I want to get all
keybindings working, so I don't have to take it into consideration when
reading Emacs/org-mode, etc. documentation.

>> so I was hoping for a way to correct all the keymappings in some
>> other way.
>
> Of course!  Good luck in your search.  I will be interested to hear
> of your results.

Will share if I get somewhere...
-- 
Ángel de Vicente
http://www.iac.es/galeria/angelv/          
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03 20:52 Silvio Levy
  2012-02-03 21:06 ` Tassilo Horn
@ 2012-02-13 15:21 ` Ken Goldman
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Ken Goldman @ 2012-02-13 15:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

On 2/3/2012 3:52 PM, Silvio Levy wrote:
>> Yes, X11 forwarding is clearly not the way to go.  But why not open
>> files on the remote server using TRAMP which comes with emacs?
>
> In my case, the answer is that editing files is only part of what I do
> remotely. I keep an ssh window open on the remote host anyway; it
> makes little sense to then use a *local* invocation of emacs to open a
> remote file (with the corresponding overhead of transfer protocols,
> mimencode and all that jazz).
>
> Conceptually, too, it's cleaner if each of my (color-coded) text
> windows is acting on a single host.
>
> TRAMP sounds terrific, but it seems to be meant for a different sort
> of workflow.

Yes.  Your work flow works if you have an account on the remote machine, 
if the machine has emacs, and if the bandwidth and latency are adequate.

If any of these are false, tramp is the solution - pull the file over, 
edit locally, and send it back when you're done.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-03  7:10 ` Bob Proulx
  2012-02-03  7:33   ` 郭晓峰
  2012-02-03  9:40   ` Angel de Vicente
@ 2012-02-28 18:32   ` Oleksandr Gavenko
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Oleksandr Gavenko @ 2012-02-28 18:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

On 2012-02-03, Bob Proulx wrote:

> For what it is worth I live inside emacs inside an xterm and M-SPC is
> propagated correctly by xterm.  I do have "Meta Sends Escape"
> (XTerm*metaSendsEscape:true) configured in my Xresources for xterm.

I have:

  ! Allow Alt as Meta in Emacs:
  XTerm*eightBitInput: false
  XTerm*metaSendsEscape: true

in my '~/.Xdefaults'. Man page xterm(1) say about 3 options related for this
issue:

  eightBitInput
  metaSendsEscape
  altSendsEscape

With this settings I successfully run Emacs under Debian with
'LANG=ru_RU.UTF-8' and Cygwin with 'LANG=ru_RU.cp1251' (in xterm of course).

-- 
Best regards!




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
  2012-02-04  0:10       ` Angel de Vicente
@ 2012-02-28 18:40         ` Oleksandr Gavenko
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Oleksandr Gavenko @ 2012-02-28 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

On 2012-02-04, Angel de Vicente wrote:

> Right now I'm using a lot org-mode, so I would like to be able to send
> M-SPC and C-M-SPC to Emacs.

Right now I run xterm, screen and emacs in it:

  $ xterm
  xterm# screen
  screen# emacs -nw -q

When I type "C-h k M-SPC" I get: M-SPC
When I type "C-h k C-M-SPC" I get: C-M-@

My ~/.Xdefaults settings for xterm:

  ! Allow Alt as Meta in Emacs:
  XTerm*eightBitInput: false
  XTerm*metaSendsEscape: true

-- 
Best regards!




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: Keybindings for Emacs with no X?
       [not found] <mailman.3017.1328246410.15002.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2012-10-04 19:23 ` gtassone
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: gtassone @ 2012-10-04 19:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: gnu.emacs.help; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

I use gnome-terminal in Ubuntu and have the same problems with <Meta> in emacs. I have found the following related bugs.
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=663779#c13
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vte/+bug/890555

I am not an expert linux user. Can someone describe how to apply the gnome patch?

Also regarding the VTE bug report - it claims it is fixed, but I still experience it with libvte9 1:0.28.2-3ubuntu2. I also find that I have another VTE package installed - libvte-2.90-9 build 1:0.32.1-1ubuntu0. 

Can anyone offer me some advice?

thanks
Gabe

On Thursday, February 2, 2012 11:38:08 PM UTC-5, Angel de Vicente wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> I run Emacs in text mode, inside GNUScreen, running in a
> 
> gnome-terminal. As a result, many key combinations don't get sent to
> 
> Emacs properly. For example, M-SPC gets to Emacs as C-M-j. Since I run
> 
> Emacs always like this, and basically I live inside Emacs, I would be
> 
> willing to spend some time trying to find a way out of this
> 
> problem. Searching the web has not really helped much... 
> 
> 
> 
> Any help on where I should be looking? 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> 
> Ángel de Vicente
> 
> http://angel-de-vicente.blogspot.com/



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2012-10-04 19:23 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
     [not found] <mailman.3017.1328246410.15002.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-10-04 19:23 ` Keybindings for Emacs with no X? gtassone
2012-02-03 20:52 Silvio Levy
2012-02-03 21:06 ` Tassilo Horn
2012-02-13 15:21 ` Ken Goldman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2012-02-03 20:09 Silvio Levy
2012-02-03 22:54 ` Angel de Vicente
2012-02-03  4:38 Angel de Vicente
2012-02-03  7:10 ` Bob Proulx
2012-02-03  7:33   ` 郭晓峰
2012-02-03  7:47     ` Philipp Haselwarter
2012-02-03  9:44       ` Angel de Vicente
2012-02-03  9:42     ` Angel de Vicente
2012-02-03 18:30       ` 郭晓峰
2012-02-03  9:40   ` Angel de Vicente
2012-02-03 19:53     ` Bob Proulx
2012-02-04  0:10       ` Angel de Vicente
2012-02-28 18:40         ` Oleksandr Gavenko
2012-02-28 18:32   ` Oleksandr Gavenko
2012-02-03  7:48 ` Tassilo Horn
2012-02-03  9:47   ` Angel de Vicente
2012-02-03 12:25   ` Peter Dyballa
2012-02-03 20:03     ` Tassilo Horn
2012-02-03 22:09       ` Peter Dyballa
2012-02-03  7:50 ` Jiaxin Cao
2012-02-03 19:58   ` Bob Proulx
2012-02-03 20:12     ` Tassilo Horn
2012-02-03 20:37       ` Bob Proulx

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