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From: rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Issues with emacs
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:08:06 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <cf1e029a-5af3-4488-8a70-3ba4b9195168@nw7g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: m2zk7rn8c3.fsf@gmail.com

On Jun 25, 12:45 pm, Helmut Eller <eller.hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> * rusi [2012-06-25 05:51] writes:

> > If the issue is technical, then encouraging development is out-of-
> > bounds
> > If the issue is social -- how to get today's kids interested in emacs
> > -- and I start with the slogan LEARN ELISP -- I need to go to
> > marketing kindergarten
>
> I have my doubts that "kids" will make a better Emacs.  IMO good
> programs are usually built by experienced and skilled developers.  I
> don't think that it's accident that RMS wrote Emacs and GCC.  To make a
> better Emacs, we would need highly skilled (and probably well paid)
> people.

There are two extreme points:
- anyone and everyone adds code to the difficult/critical parts
resulting in a mess and breakdown
- no one codes; after a while emacs dies

Clearly the sweet spot is inbetween: the right number of committed,
capable programers to keep developing refactoring progressing

The thread Tom alluded to earlier http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/126892
suggests what in systems thinking is called a reinforcing-loop or
vicious cycle: http://www.systems-thinking.org/theWay/sre/re.htm

Too few programmers working on too many new areas
Spread too thin for doing more 'less ciritcal' work
Cant mentor/tutor new wannabie devs
The wannabies feel unwelcome and leave depleting the already depleted
population of devs

Tom wrote:
> Some of today's kids will be experienced and skilled developers
> someday, but they will only use their skill to improve emacs if
> they get to like it first as "kids".

Very well put


  parent reply	other threads:[~2012-06-26  3:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 123+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <mailman.2952.1339986753.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-18  3:22 ` Emacs users a dying breed? Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-18  9:32   ` djc
2012-06-18 10:25     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-18 17:09     ` Ken Goldman
2012-06-21 15:27 ` rusi
2012-06-22  6:19   ` Tom
2012-06-22  8:45     ` Jeremiah Dodds
2012-06-22  9:40       ` Tom
2012-06-22 11:07         ` Bastien
2012-06-22 11:16           ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-24 23:19             ` James Freer
2012-06-25  7:23               ` give emacs --daemon / emacsclient a try (was: Re: Emacs users a dying breed?) Gregor Zattler
     [not found]             ` <mailman.3407.1340581002.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-25  2:58               ` Emacs for writers (was " rusi
2012-06-25  9:38                 ` James Freer
2012-06-26 21:47                   ` James Freer
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.3534.1340747277.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-27  3:41                     ` rusi
2012-06-22 13:13           ` Emacs users a dying breed? Tom
     [not found]           ` <mailman.3233.1340370922.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-22 14:12             ` Jay Belanger
2012-06-22 15:02               ` Tom
     [not found]               ` <mailman.3245.1340377350.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-22 18:25                 ` John Bokma
2012-06-22 11:17         ` Jeremiah Dodds
2012-06-22 12:03           ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-22 12:21             ` Richard Riley
2012-06-22 13:04               ` Jonathan Groll
2012-06-23 11:33                 ` Philipp Haselwarter
2012-06-23 12:05                   ` Teemu Likonen
2012-06-23 12:35                     ` Philipp Haselwarter
2012-06-23 12:53                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-23 13:53                       ` S Boucher
2012-06-23 12:37                     ` suvayu ali
2012-06-25 19:00                   ` Ken Goldman
2012-06-23 14:02               ` S Boucher
2012-06-22 12:46             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2012-06-22 13:27               ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-22 13:45               ` Doug Lewan
2012-06-22 13:09           ` Tom
2012-07-02 11:36             ` Mihamina Rakotomandimby
2012-06-22 15:08 ` Issues with emacs (was Emacs users a dying breed?) rusi
2012-06-22 15:26   ` Issues with emacs Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-23  2:28     ` rusi
2012-06-23  9:47       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-22 16:41   ` Issues with emacs (was Emacs users a dying breed?) Drew Adams
2012-06-22 18:01     ` Bastien
2012-06-23 20:04       ` Tom
2012-06-24 11:38         ` Eric Abrahamsen
2012-06-24 14:00           ` Drew Adams
2012-06-25 19:23           ` Ludwig, Mark
     [not found]         ` <mailman.3361.1340537904.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24 13:52           ` Issues with emacs Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]       ` <mailman.3330.1340481863.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-23 23:49         ` Dan Espen
2012-06-24  1:24           ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-24  2:39           ` ken
2012-06-25 18:02             ` Sivaram Neelakantan
2012-06-26  3:03               ` becoming a developer [was: Re: Issues with emacs] ken
     [not found]               ` <mailman.3485.1340679833.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-26  3:23                 ` rusi
     [not found]                   ` <CAPyVhy_fL3KLrNzqOMbg69UqUMAKPmXbbu7gVYQcK+KiML44hA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                     ` <CAJ+Teof7T6qXdztq_Pjh+S8gVXQV-ToYJ6EQrPNYQAumn_aDOA@mail.gmail.com>
2012-06-27 13:38                       ` antoine no
2012-06-27 17:44                         ` Aurélien Aptel
2012-06-26 12:29                 ` becoming a lisp developer Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-27 15:36                   ` ken
2012-06-27 16:12                     ` PJ Weisberg
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.3561.1340811384.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-27 16:09                     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]             ` <mailman.3455.1340647361.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-25 18:40               ` Issues with emacs notbob
2012-06-25 19:05                 ` Glyn Millington
     [not found]           ` <mailman.3348.1340505598.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24  6:39             ` rusi
2012-06-24  7:01               ` Corentin Henry
2012-06-24  7:55                 ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-24 16:04                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-24 17:38                     ` Andreas Röhler
2012-06-24 18:21                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.3355.1340524541.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24 12:17                   ` notbob
2012-06-24 13:24                     ` Deniz Dogan
2012-06-24 14:42                       ` Yuri Khan
2012-06-24 15:08                       ` Gregory Benjamin
2012-06-25 19:26                         ` Deniz Dogan
2012-06-24 16:24                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-25 19:25                         ` Deniz Dogan
2012-06-24 13:36                     ` Richard Riley
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.3362.1340544276.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24 14:03                       ` notbob
2012-06-24 16:01                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-24 10:14               ` Rainer M Krug
2012-06-24 14:18                 ` Drew Adams
2012-06-24 15:41                   ` Rainer M Krug
2012-06-24 16:07                     ` Drew Adams
2012-06-24 16:48                       ` Rainer M Krug
     [not found]               ` <mailman.3354.1340521292.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-24 12:15                 ` notbob
2012-06-24 14:02               ` Drew Adams
2012-06-25  3:54               ` ken
     [not found]               ` <mailman.3424.1340596458.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-25  5:51                 ` rusi
2012-06-25  7:45                   ` Helmut Eller
2012-06-25  8:57                     ` Tom
2012-06-25 21:24                       ` Jeremiah Dodds
2012-06-26  5:50                         ` Tom
2012-06-26 20:08                           ` Jeremiah Dodds
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.3486.1340689846.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-26 13:29                           ` notbob
2012-06-26 17:47                             ` Dustin Hemmerling
2012-06-26 18:13                             ` Sivaram Neelakantan
2012-06-26 18:32                             ` Richard Riley
2012-06-28 12:14                               ` Tom
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.3520.1340735564.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-26 19:28                               ` notbob
2012-06-26 19:49                                 ` Ludwig, Mark
2012-06-26 19:52                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2012-06-27 15:49                                   ` PJ Weisberg
2012-06-28  2:09                                     ` John Wiegley
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.3523.1340740164.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-26 20:13                                   ` notbob
2012-06-26 23:57                             ` John Wiegley
2012-06-27  9:23                               ` temacs Jambunathan K
2012-06-27 14:44                                 ` temacs Ken Goldman
2012-06-28  2:40                                   ` temacs John Wiegley
2012-06-28  8:49                                     ` temacs Bastien
2012-06-29 19:37                                       ` temacs Ken Goldman
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.3732.1340998682.855.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2012-06-30  3:51                                         ` temacs rusi
2012-06-27 14:44                                 ` temacs suvayu ali
2012-06-27 16:24                                   ` temacs Alp Aker
2012-06-27 19:57                                     ` temacs Ken Goldman
2012-07-05  4:14                                 ` temacs John Wiegley
2012-07-05 12:46                                   ` temacs Eli Zaretskii
2012-07-07 16:51                                     ` temacs John Wiegley
2012-07-07 17:20                                       ` temacs Eli Zaretskii
2012-06-27 15:48                             ` Issues with emacs Stefan Monnier
2012-06-26  3:08                     ` rusi [this message]
2012-06-26  8:35                       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2012-06-27  5:54                   ` MBR
2012-06-26 18:03             ` Bug Dout
2012-06-25  2:43       ` Issues with emacs (was Emacs users a dying breed?) Ugly Sean

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