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* RMS Setup
@ 2021-03-26 21:58 Caleb Herbert
  2021-03-26 22:26 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Caleb Herbert @ 2021-03-26 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Can someone help me do email the way RMS does it?

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
(816) 892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 21:58 RMS Setup Caleb Herbert
@ 2021-03-26 22:26 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27  9:27   ` Uwe Brauer
  2021-03-26 22:33 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
  2021-03-26 23:12 ` Philip Kaludercic
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-26 22:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Caleb Herbert wrote:

> Can someone help me do email the way RMS does it?

He uses RMAIL/Rmail.

  Rmail is the primary Emacs mail-reader. I don't know how
  many people currently use it, but I will ignore any
  suggestion to treat it as unimportant [1]

But this quote is not 100% correct to be honest.

Gnus is as much built-in as Rmail. There is no primary Emacs
mail-reader. And, more importantly, Gnus is on a whole
other level.

So use Gnus :)

[1] https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Rmail

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* RE: [External] : RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 21:58 RMS Setup Caleb Herbert
  2021-03-26 22:26 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-26 22:33 ` Drew Adams
  2021-03-26 22:45   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 23:12 ` Philip Kaludercic
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2021-03-26 22:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Caleb Herbert, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org

> Can someone help me do email the way RMS does it?

Start with a long reply saying that you are not on vacation...



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: [External] : RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 22:33 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
@ 2021-03-26 22:45   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 22:50     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 22:53     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-26 22:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Drew Adams wrote:

>> Can someone help me do email the way RMS does it?
>
> Start with a long reply saying that you are not on
> vacation...

[[ And a long note on Snowden and NSA ... ]]

Good book BTW, this is the Swedish translation by Stefan
Lindgren who has been an activist since the 60s-70s. I've met
him twice, and RMS as well for that matter, once. To be fair
both are great guys. Anyway Mr Lindgren wrote three books
about the guerilla's fighting the Soviet invasion of
Afghanistan, from Afghanistan. This was long before they (or
parts of "they", I should say) turned international Jihadist
after being backed by the CIA and the medieval Islamic kingdom
of Saudi Arabia...

Only thing that was a bummer is that Snowden doesn't mention
mailing lists, Gmane, Usenet or IRC with one word. To be
a hacker he must have been on a whole other level, right?
But what level is that in terms of technology?

@book{i-allmanhetens-tjanst-permanent-record,
  author     = {Edward Snowden},
  isbn       = {978-91-7343-975-6},
  publisher  = {Leopard},
  title      = {I allmänhetens tjänst (Permanent Record)},
  translator = {Stefan Lindgren},
  year       = {2019 (2019)}
}

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: [External] : RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 22:45   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-26 22:50     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 22:53     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-26 22:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> Only thing that was a bummer is that Snowden doesn't mention
> mailing lists, Gmane, Usenet or IRC with one word. To be
> a hacker he must have been on a whole other level, right?
> But what level is that in terms of technology?
>
> @book{i-allmanhetens-tjanst-permanent-record,
>   author     = {Edward Snowden},
>   isbn       = {978-91-7343-975-6},
>   publisher  = {Leopard},
>   title      = {I allmänhetens tjänst (Permanent Record)},
>   translator = {Stefan Lindgren},
>   year       = {2019 (2019)}
> }

Oh, that's right, he doesn't mention Biblatex either...

And not Lisp, zsh, or... 

Mr Snowden, can you hear me?! ... ...

Didn't think so :(

Well, good luck wherever you are. You did well.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: [External] : RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 22:45   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 22:50     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-26 22:53     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 22:58       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-26 22:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> [[ And a long note on Snowden and NSA ... ]]

There is a photo of RMS with Julian Assange [1] with a picture
of Snowden as well.

Assange has the same attitude to autobiographies as
Stefan Monnier, BTW. But he still wrote one. Bad. A _much_
weaker book than Snowden's.

@book{memoarer-ar-prostitution,
  author     = {Julian Assange},
  isbn       = {978-91-1-303764-6},
  publisher  = {Norstedt},
  title      = {"Memoarer är prostitution": en omtvistad självbiografi},
  year       = {2011}
}

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: [External] : RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 22:53     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-26 22:58       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-26 22:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> Assange has the same attitude to autobiographies as Stefan
> Monnier, BTW. But he still wrote one. Bad. A _much_ weaker
> book than Snowden's.

Might as well mention RMS's autobiography as well.

Well, it doesn't matter who or what "non-programmer" wrote it.
It is just horrible, soo bad.

@book{free-as-in-freedom,
  author     = {Richard Stallman and Sam Williams},
  isbn       = 0983159211,
  publisher  = {FSF},
  title      = {Free as in Freedom 2.0},
  year       = {2010}
}

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 21:58 RMS Setup Caleb Herbert
  2021-03-26 22:26 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 22:33 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
@ 2021-03-26 23:12 ` Philip Kaludercic
  2021-03-26 23:19   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27 21:02   ` Caleb Herbert
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2021-03-26 23:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Caleb Herbert; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> writes:

> Can someone help me do email the way RMS does it?
<#secure method=pgpmime mode=signencrypt>

As others have said, he uses Rmail. I also used it for a year, and wrote
down how I configured it, maybe this might help you too:

     http://ruzkuku.com/texts/rmail.html

-- 
	Philip K.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 23:12 ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-03-26 23:19   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 23:26     ` Philip Kaludercic
  2021-03-26 23:34     ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-27 21:02   ` Caleb Herbert
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-26 23:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Philip Kaludercic wrote:

>> Can someone help me do email the way RMS does it?
> <#secure method=pgpmime mode=signencrypt>
>
> As others have said, he uses Rmail. I also used it for a year, and wrote
> down how I configured it, maybe this might help you too:
>
>      http://ruzkuku.com/texts/rmail.html

Cred and respect to RMS for all he has done but one shouldn't
just choose software based on what someone else does.
Find your own form! In the end, it is the most powerful one,
for YOU. Using the same stick as Wayne Gretzky doesn't help if
you can't play.

(Actually it is a horrible example since today's carbon or
Aramid fiber/Kevlar sticks are so much better than what he
used - which, by all means, was the best they had then - and
it is certainly possible to play great hockey with - as he and
many others did)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 23:19   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-26 23:26     ` Philip Kaludercic
  2021-03-26 23:33       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 23:35       ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-26 23:34     ` Jean Louis
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2021-03-26 23:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
<help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>
>>> Can someone help me do email the way RMS does it?
>> <#secure method=pgpmime mode=signencrypt>
>>
>> As others have said, he uses Rmail. I also used it for a year, and wrote
>> down how I configured it, maybe this might help you too:
>>
>>      http://ruzkuku.com/texts/rmail.html
>
> Cred and respect to RMS for all he has done but one shouldn't
> just choose software based on what someone else does.
> Find your own form!

Just to clarify, I used Rmail because I wanted to try out an alternative
to Gnus and it's cryptic key-bindings. The fact that RMS uses it just
made me curious to try it out.

-- 
	Philip K.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 23:26     ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-03-26 23:33       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 23:35       ` Jean Louis
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-26 23:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Philip Kaludercic wrote:

> Just to clarify, I used Rmail because I wanted to try out an
> alternative to Gnus and it's cryptic key-bindings.

... %)

Bind them to whatever you want.

But the crypticness of Gnus - or rather, its vastness...

Nothing to do about that. Except to like it :)

> The fact that RMS uses it just made me curious to try
> it out.

It is a toy compared to Gnus, trust me.

mail - MLs with Gmane - Usenet - blogs with Gwene - and more -
all with the same king Usenet interface (but without the
insults)

Observe:

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/figures/gnus/gnus-group.png

Elisp:

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/gnus/

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 23:19   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-26 23:26     ` Philip Kaludercic
@ 2021-03-26 23:34     ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-26 23:48       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2021-03-26 23:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

* Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> [2021-03-27 02:20]:
> Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> 
> >> Can someone help me do email the way RMS does it?
> > <#secure method=pgpmime mode=signencrypt>
> >
> > As others have said, he uses Rmail. I also used it for a year, and wrote
> > down how I configured it, maybe this might help you too:
> >
> >      http://ruzkuku.com/texts/rmail.html
> 
> Cred and respect to RMS for all he has done but one shouldn't
> just choose software based on what someone else does.
> Find your own form!

Form or software?

I have tried using software because I heard other people using it,
Thunderbird, Evolution, Rmail, Gnus, but the mutt, the loyal dog, is
always with me. Writing emails with Emacs sending with mutt into msmtp
queue and dispatching every few minutes with fcron.

I see others use Thunderbird, so I used it after mutt for few years,
with issues discovered, I went back to mutt.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 23:26     ` Philip Kaludercic
  2021-03-26 23:33       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-26 23:35       ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-26 23:50         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2021-03-26 23:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

* Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> [2021-03-27 02:27]:
> Just to clarify, I used Rmail because I wanted to try out an alternative
> to Gnus and it's cryptic key-bindings. The fact that RMS uses it just
> made me curious to try it out.

Rmail works well, I would setup movemail from GNU mailutils to bring
emails from remote server to local server by using.

You may read mailbox files like mailing list archives with:
C-u M-x rmail





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 23:34     ` Jean Louis
@ 2021-03-26 23:48       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-26 23:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Jean Louis wrote:

>> Cred and respect to RMS for all he has done but one
>> shouldn't just choose software based on what someone else
>> does. Find your own form!
>
> Form or software?

Software is one part of it. And from there starts the more
interesting part...

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/SOFTWARE  

> I have tried using software because I heard other people
> using it, Thunderbird, Evolution, Rmail, Gnus, but the mutt,
> the loyal dog, is always with me. Writing emails with Emacs
> sending with mutt into msmtp queue and dispatching every few
> minutes with fcron.

Yeah, nothing wrong with hearing stuff :)

To quote the great software engineer Yogi Berra, you can see
a lot by just looking!

> I see others use Thunderbird, so I used it after mutt for
> few years, with issues discovered, I went back to mutt.

You have your own form, don't worry :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 23:35       ` Jean Louis
@ 2021-03-26 23:50         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27  7:08           ` Tomas Hlavaty
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-26 23:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Jean Louis wrote:

>> Just to clarify, I used Rmail because I wanted to try out
>> an alternative to Gnus and it's cryptic key-bindings.
>> The fact that RMS uses it just made me curious to try
>> it out.
>
> Rmail works well, I would setup movemail from GNU mailutils
> to bring emails from remote server to local server by using.

It certainly works but why enter the tiny shop when there is
a HUGE one right next to it?

It is like learning Czech instead of Russian...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 23:50         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-27  7:08           ` Tomas Hlavaty
  2021-03-27  7:45             ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-27 14:14             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Tomas Hlavaty @ 2021-03-27  7:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg, help-gnu-emacs

On Sat 27 Mar 2021 at 00:50, Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> wrote:
> It certainly works but why enter the tiny shop when there is
> a HUGE one right next to it?
>
> It is like learning Czech instead of Russian...

Czech here.  Bad logic, why learn Russian instead of Chinese?  What if
your logic is used for text editors?  Or operating systems?  Or anything
else?  No need to blindly flock.  Diversity is good.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27  7:08           ` Tomas Hlavaty
@ 2021-03-27  7:45             ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-27 14:23               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27 14:14             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2021-03-27  7:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tomas Hlavaty; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, Emanuel Berg

* Tomas Hlavaty <tom@logand.com> [2021-03-27 10:09]:
> On Sat 27 Mar 2021 at 00:50, Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> wrote:
> > It certainly works but why enter the tiny shop when there is
> > a HUGE one right next to it?
> >
> > It is like learning Czech instead of Russian...
> 
> Czech here.  Bad logic, why learn Russian instead of Chinese?  What if
> your logic is used for text editors?  Or operating systems?  Or anything
> else?  No need to blindly flock.  Diversity is good.

I got idea that this is about Gnus being better than Rmail.

It may be more complex or better for somebody, but it never worked for
me as I use maildirs, and Gnus cannot handle so many maildirs I have,
like 48177 -- while mutt, the loyal dog https://www.mutt.org can
handle that without breathing problems, by simply accessing file
directories. The concept of accessing file directories is simple, yet
Gnus will die on the attempt.

mu4e is slow, I have already said to author that I could never even
reach the time point where mu4e can show me the list of my Maildirs.

Rmail cannot handle Maildirs, but is good for simple mailboxes. It can
be used to handle retrieved emails, send emails, and save them. After
that, I recommend `sieve' from GNU Mailutils package and automatic
sorting of emails into corresponding mailboxes.

That is why I send emails often from Emacs, save them in a mbox, and
use sieve later to sort into specific maildirs.

Maildir format comes handy for one useful feature, if all emails
related to tom@example.com are sorted in ~/Maildir/tom@example.com as
a directory, then the full conversation related to Tom may be
retrieved or opened in a second. In fact I have made a key binding in
mutt and also functions in Emacs that as soon as I find the person I
can press a key and get the list of all related conversation in a
second.

The principle of sorting emails send TO: tom@example.com and received
FROM: tom@example.com into mailbox folder named "tom@example.com" is
useful regardless of the mailbox format.

References:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maildir

Sieve:
https://mailutils.org/manual/html_section/sieve.html
https://mailutils.org/manual/html_chapter/Sieve-Language.html

Emails need not be sorted into Maildirs, they can be sorted into any
type of email file format. 

Example function that saves emails from mbox created by Emacs into
Maildirs related to specific email address (recipient in this case):

function save-maildir-by-to () {
    sieve -f /your/script/dir/save-by-to.sieve" && echo Sieve DONE.
}

Script save-by-to.sieve:
========================

require [ "fileinto", "variables" ];
if address :matches [ "to" ] "*" {
  set "recipient" :lower "${1}";
  fileinto "~/Maildir/${recipient}";
            }

Configuration ~/.mailutils:
===========================

tls {
    enable true;
}
    
mailbox {
	# Use specified URL as a mailspool.
       	mail-spool /home/data1/protected/Maildir;

       # Default mailbox type.
       mailbox-type Maildir;

     }


Jean



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 22:26 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-27  9:27   ` Uwe Brauer
  2021-03-27 14:25     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27 14:47     ` Gregory Heytings
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2021-03-27  9:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 885 bytes --]

>>> "EBvUlftGEte" == Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

> Caleb Herbert wrote:
>> Can someone help me do email the way RMS does it?

> He uses RMAIL/Rmail.

>   Rmail is the primary Emacs mail-reader. I don't know how
>   many people currently use it, but I will ignore any
>   suggestion to treat it as unimportant [1]

> But this quote is not 100% correct to be honest.

I think it is a bit misleading. If memory serves me, then Rmail was the
*first* email reader for GNU emacs (1987?), the second one was/is VM (1989), gnus popped
up around 1993 but first as a newsreader and was then rewritten to serve
as a new/mail reader.

> Gnus is as much built-in as Rmail. There is no primary Emacs
> mail-reader. And, more importantly, Gnus is on a whole
> other level.

> So use Gnus :)

> [1] https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Rmail

[-- Attachment #2: smime.p7s --]
[-- Type: application/pkcs7-signature, Size: 5673 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27  7:08           ` Tomas Hlavaty
  2021-03-27  7:45             ` Jean Louis
@ 2021-03-27 14:14             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-27 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Tomas Hlavaty wrote:

>> It certainly works but why enter the tiny shop when there
>> is a HUGE one right next to it?
>>
>> It is like learning Czech instead of Russian...
>
> Czech here. Bad logic, why learn Russian instead of Chinese?
> What if your logic is used for text editors? Or operating
> systems? Or anything else? No need to blindly flock.
> Diversity is good.

I agree, the assumption is that both shops are good, of
course :) If one is bad, no matter the size of it, don't go
there :)

What I mean is, for example, that the Russian Federation has
a population of 144 386 830 [1]

While the Czech Republic (or is it Czechia today? do tell,
I don't know) has 10 707 839 [2]

And land area: 17 125 191 km2 vs 78 866 km2 ...

Forest: (in thousand hectares) Czechia isn't even on the
Europe top 17 list! where we can't help to note that

1  Sweden     28 073
2  Finland    22 218

:)

Still, that's nothing compared to the global #1, namely

   Russia    885 000 [3]

And so on.

This is what I mean.

China? What does that have to do with anything? But sure, it
is a big shop alright :)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic
[3] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/data/FOREST

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27  7:45             ` Jean Louis
@ 2021-03-27 14:23               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-27 14:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Jean Louis wrote:

> I got idea that this is about Gnus being better than Rmail.

It is much more powerful and versatile and has more features
- to a mind-boggling degree - than Rmail.

It is like comparing a TI-84+ or a SNES to a Unix system on
a computer... just a whole other level.

Gnus is to Emacs what Emacs is to computer users :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27  9:27   ` Uwe Brauer
@ 2021-03-27 14:25     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27 14:47     ` Gregory Heytings
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-27 14:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Uwe Brauer wrote:

> I think it is a bit misleading. If memory serves me, then
> Rmail was the *first* email reader for GNU emacs (1987?),
> the second one was/is VM (1989), gnus popped up around 1993
> but first as a newsreader and was then rewritten to serve as
> a new/mail reader.

Yeah, I don't think there should be any rank to it. If they
are both built-in, they are formally at the same level. Right,
they are _formally_ at the same level :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27  9:27   ` Uwe Brauer
  2021-03-27 14:25     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-27 14:47     ` Gregory Heytings
  2021-03-27 15:02       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27 16:25       ` Uwe Brauer
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Heytings @ 2021-03-27 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Uwe Brauer; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs


>
> If memory serves me, then Rmail was the *first* email reader for GNU 
> emacs (1987?),
>

Rmail, like Info and Dired, predates GNU Emacs, it was already part of ITS 
Emacs in 1980.  They were among the first things RMS reimplemented for GNU 
Emacs, in 1985.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27 14:47     ` Gregory Heytings
@ 2021-03-27 15:02       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27 16:25       ` Uwe Brauer
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-27 15:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Gregory Heytings wrote:

>> If memory serves me, then Rmail was the *first* email
>> reader for GNU emacs (1987?),
>
> Rmail, like Info and Dired, predates GNU Emacs, it was
> already part of ITS Emacs in 1980. They were among the first
> things RMS reimplemented for GNU Emacs, in 1985.

You know this by heart or did you read it somewhere?

Interesting anyhow :)

RMS really likes Rmail :)

What other programs were around?

What program was the very first?

Which is the oldest galaxy in the universe?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27 14:47     ` Gregory Heytings
  2021-03-27 15:02       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-27 16:25       ` Uwe Brauer
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Uwe Brauer @ 2021-03-27 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 379 bytes --]

>>> "GH" == Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org> writes:

>> 
>> If memory serves me, then Rmail was the *first* email reader for GNU
>> emacs (1987?),
>> 

> Rmail, like Info and Dired, predates GNU Emacs, it was already part of
> ITS Emacs in 1980.  They were among the first things RMS reimplemented
> for GNU Emacs, in 1985.

Aha, I did not know that, thanks!

[-- Attachment #2: smime.p7s --]
[-- Type: application/pkcs7-signature, Size: 5673 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-26 23:12 ` Philip Kaludercic
  2021-03-26 23:19   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-27 21:02   ` Caleb Herbert
  2021-03-27 21:16     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
                       ` (2 more replies)
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Caleb Herbert @ 2021-03-27 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

נכתב על ידי Philip Kaludercic, ב־26.3.2021 בשעה 18:12:
> As others have said, he uses Rmail. 
I have not received messages from others
>      http://ruzkuku.com/texts/rmail.html

This guide is a bit opaque, calling outside scripts and assuming one has
read the man page. It reminds me of the cross-reference-heavy Arch Wiki,
as opposed to the self-contained FreeBSD Handbook.

-- 
Caleb Herbert
KE0VVT
(816) 892-9669
https://bluehome.net/csh



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27 21:02   ` Caleb Herbert
@ 2021-03-27 21:16     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27 21:24     ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-28  2:40     ` Robert Thorpe
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-03-27 21:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Caleb Herbert wrote:

> נכתב על ידי Philip Kaludercic, ב־26.3.2021 בשעה 18:12:
>
>> As others have said, he uses Rmail. 
> I have not received messages from others

Now what? :) This reminds me of my latest LSD trip... heh, how
did you do it? B)

And, if you don't know who the others are - that means they
are you...

>>      http://ruzkuku.com/texts/rmail.html
>
> This guide is a bit opaque, calling outside scripts and
> assuming one has read the man page. It reminds me of the
> cross-reference-heavy Arch Wiki, as opposed to the
> self-contained FreeBSD Handbook.

Well, 1855 lines...

really cool effect :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27 21:02   ` Caleb Herbert
  2021-03-27 21:16     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-03-27 21:24     ` Jean Louis
  2021-03-28  2:40     ` Robert Thorpe
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2021-03-27 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Caleb Herbert; +Cc: Philip Kaludercic, help-gnu-emacs

* Caleb Herbert <csh@bluehome.net> [2021-03-28 00:03]:
> נכתב על ידי Philip Kaludercic, ב־26.3.2021 בשעה 18:12:
> > As others have said, he uses Rmail. 
> I have not received messages from others
> >      http://ruzkuku.com/texts/rmail.html
> 
> This guide is a bit opaque, calling outside scripts and assuming one has
> read the man page. It reminds me of the cross-reference-heavy Arch Wiki,
> as opposed to the self-contained FreeBSD Handbook.

It looks as a well written page on Rmail. I guess author of that page
is proposing one of methods for users how to send email, in that case
sendmail I guess, as it uses msmtp. So the method has to be specified
in Emacs and some methods have to use external command, for example
`sendmail'.

Hide Message Send Mail Function:
Choice:
( ) message--default-send-mail-function
        Use the setting of ‘send-mail-function’ if applicable.
(*) message-send-mail-with-sendmail
        Send off the prepared buffer with sendmail.
( ) message-send-mail-with-mh
        Send the prepared message buffer with mh.
( ) message-send-mail-with-qmail
        Pass the prepared message buffer to qmail-inject. More
( ) message-smtpmail-send-it
        Send the prepared message buffer with ‘smtpmail-send-it’. More
( ) smtpmail-send-it
( ) feedmail-send-it
        Send the current mail buffer using the Feedmail package. More
( ) message-send-mail-with-mailclient
        Send the prepared message buffer with ‘mailclient-send-it’. More
( ) Other: ignore


You may read the self contained manual for Rmail in Emacs Manual, you
may evaluate this: (info "(emacs) Rmail") where you will get
instructions:

33 Reading Mail with Rmail
**************************

Rmail is an Emacs subsystem for reading and disposing of mail that you
receive.  Rmail stores mail messages in files called Rmail files.
Reading the messages in an Rmail file is done in a special major mode,
Rmail mode, which redefines most letters to run commands for managing
mail.

   Emacs also comes with a much more sophisticated and flexible
subsystem for reading mail, called Gnus.  Gnus is a very large package,
and is therefore described in its own manual, see *note (gnus)Top::.

* Menu:

* Basic: Rmail Basics.       Basic concepts of Rmail, and simple use.
* Scroll: Rmail Scrolling.   Scrolling through a message.
* Motion: Rmail Motion.      Moving to another message.
* Deletion: Rmail Deletion.  Deleting and expunging messages.
* Inbox: Rmail Inbox.        How mail gets into the Rmail file.
* Files: Rmail Files.        Using multiple Rmail files.
* Output: Rmail Output.      Copying messages out to files.
* Labels: Rmail Labels.      Classifying messages by labeling them.
* Attrs: Rmail Attributes.   Certain standard labels, called attributes.
* Reply: Rmail Reply.        Sending replies to messages you are viewing.
* Summary: Rmail Summary.    Summaries show brief info on many messages.
* Sort: Rmail Sorting.       Sorting messages in Rmail.
* Display: Rmail Display.    How Rmail displays a message; customization.
* Coding: Rmail Coding.      How Rmail handles decoding character sets.
* Editing: Rmail Editing.    Editing message text and headers in Rmail.
* Digest: Rmail Digest.      Extracting the messages from a digest message.
* Rot13: Rmail Rot13.        Reading messages encoded in the rot13 code.
* Movemail::                 More details of fetching new mail.
* Remote Mailboxes::         Retrieving mail from remote mailboxes.
* Other Mailbox Formats::    Retrieving mail from local mailboxes in



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: RMS Setup
  2021-03-27 21:02   ` Caleb Herbert
  2021-03-27 21:16     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-03-27 21:24     ` Jean Louis
@ 2021-03-28  2:40     ` Robert Thorpe
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Robert Thorpe @ 2021-03-28  2:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Caleb Herbert; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

> This guide is a bit opaque, calling outside scripts and assuming one
> has read the man page. It reminds me of the cross-reference-heavy Arch
> Wiki, as opposed to the self-contained FreeBSD Handbook.

I have no idea exactly what setup RMS used, but I know how to setup
Rmail.  It's not very difficult to setup these days.  Here is the way I
recommend:

* 1. Install GNU Mailutils.

This is because it's much better than the version that comes with
Emacs.  It handles IMAP and some other things.

Your distro will have it, so use your distro's package manager.

* 2. Setup Rmail details.

Add the following to your init.el file:
(setq rmail-primary-inbox-list
      (cons (concat "<PROTOCOL>"
		    "<LOGIN>"
		    "@<SERVER>")
	    nil))

<PROTOCOL> should be pop:// if you use POP or imap:// if you use IMAP>

<LOGIN> this is the username for your mail server.  If it contains the
symbol "@" you have to replace that with %40.

<SERVER> is your email server (e.g. mail.someisp.com).

Now you've setup Rmail which only *receives* mail.

* 3. Setup sending mail.

This really has nothing to do with Rmail.  You can send mail with Emacs
even if you don't receive mail with Emacs (and vice versa).

(setq send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
(setq smtpmail-smtp-server "<SMTP SERVER>")

Here <STMP SERVER> will be something like smtp.someisp.com.

(setq user-mail-address "<EMAIL ADDRESS>")
(setq smtpmail-smtp-service <PORT>)

<PORT> is the port your ISP uses.  That used to always be 25, now it is
often something different like 587.

....

After all that you can tweak things.  You might want to add a
".authinfo" file to contain your SMTP server login details so you don't
have to enter them every time you send a mail.  You might also want to add a
".mu-tickets" file so you don't have to enter your POP server login
details every time you start Rmail.

The variables mail-default-headers, rmail-delete-after-output,
rmail-output-file-alist and rmail-automatic-folder-directives can be
useful for tweaking things.  The Rmail section of the Emacs manual
describes them all.  You also might want to customize send-mail-function
to something else.

BR,
Robert Thorpe



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-03-28  2:40 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 28+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-03-26 21:58 RMS Setup Caleb Herbert
2021-03-26 22:26 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-27  9:27   ` Uwe Brauer
2021-03-27 14:25     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-27 14:47     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-03-27 15:02       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-27 16:25       ` Uwe Brauer
2021-03-26 22:33 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-26 22:45   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-26 22:50     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-26 22:53     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-26 22:58       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-26 23:12 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-03-26 23:19   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-26 23:26     ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-03-26 23:33       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-26 23:35       ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 23:50         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-27  7:08           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-03-27  7:45             ` Jean Louis
2021-03-27 14:23               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-27 14:14             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-26 23:34     ` Jean Louis
2021-03-26 23:48       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-27 21:02   ` Caleb Herbert
2021-03-27 21:16     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-03-27 21:24     ` Jean Louis
2021-03-28  2:40     ` Robert Thorpe

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