From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2023 00:41:35 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmxj27fn.fsf@dfreeman.email> <831qfrptiq.fsf@gnu.org> <57429221-d9be-5791-e975-b3539905e2f6@gutov.dev> <83a5udlj47.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5udk1co.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19172"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Cc: danny@dfreeman.email, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Philip Kaludercic , Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 26 23:42:34 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qa13A-0004mV-Q4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 23:42:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qa12R-000473-RP; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 17:41:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qa12Q-00046t-5f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 17:41:46 -0400 Original-Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.21]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qa12N-0005qa-II; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 17:41:45 -0400 Original-Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4A232005CA; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 17:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 26 Aug 2023 17:41:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t= 1693086098; x=1693172498; bh=MC9nkXS2tNIWRCkDHXprsqO2GatArWLgsg/ RUPLuLqk=; b=hSAhjrjBXYfbhUTDsIrdx4P41rABWZzVB1Rm09Rf8alv7XURszO 2sdEAvvdxcqB76vpv548CPHd+RO/zR/paCwrB3b4JHoTs8tixIz2IfuZf1/Mc/bL Lorvg6aoZXw77l1rhAbPmHXP69KMuSlLoZ25u3Psel8GhAS/VKaZDmyEySuk9pHs oiHRLts1Nk1iwM/ai4wdtIXWtgwifBg7x5GV2oi+XzryYO0PWLVjgvQ7+a6r81ac b7mgWZW0Rqy4FWVhXfkiJ+ydu2eeJb9Dwn35ZUQjVHgL5k2ylcszimCpm0bXnq4f mAwVTkDH/hKcBC4tWOTq6aXipxfaPyViR3A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t= 1693086098; x=1693172498; bh=MC9nkXS2tNIWRCkDHXprsqO2GatArWLgsg/ RUPLuLqk=; b=esnItUpIhijHqywcLScb6lvX9vewxSNxtx2fYYKUCEYVHy2ivm6 B9LFRh0URRe152EkSl73slSyePOYIDYfqOieCIGxlQpAtrHf5mra0F3QstSSEpCL C3Av7tav5yIZjnjqGAnrxVXTqQ8R+IV/Mor40lj4DwzhuAiDBFAxZ6welmBGN86l AjDFSVHqby2o2WDfCKC6oR9K9HuktOOjLfru1f611kRyICXoKeYvO5JkZaFng8rn hYwNovIywr5a1PLBnssyQOrYGMj0JsPnvQOQfZPKrV8fqPiS8LgFUnJCByiGEcJ7 PwnrmAObTjILDm2/fSt+fWX4VRgoPbpALlQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedviedrudefuddgtddvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjtgfgsehtjeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpeffmhhi thhrhicuifhuthhovhcuoegumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepiefgteevheevveffheeltdeukeeiieekueefgedugfefgefhudelgfefveel vdevnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepug hmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghv X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 17:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87a5udk1co.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.21; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.57, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309287 Archived-At: On 26/08/2023 23:14, Philip Kaludercic wrote: > I only mention this, because I don't agree with the premise that this > boils down to "mailing-list" or "web-interface". While it is true that > a lot of people are uncertain and afraid of sending a message to a > mailing list, this fear is unreasonable and worth dispelling. It's not so much a matter of being afraid. We're not squirrels. Using Debbugs is an exercise in frustration because a random user won't know how to respond to an existing issue (finding them is clunky, but doable), how to respond to a particular comment without having been subscribed to the mailing list previously (there's no way to do that, and it's a common feature in most bug trackers and discussion platforms), how to properly respond to an email from a bug tracker that does arrive in your inbox, how to avoid dropping people from conversations, how to avoid being dropped themselves at some point. And so on. Anybody who doesn't have enough patience to google how to do the most basic things, we just don't see. Another thing we're missing, is an easy-to-access list of most recent conversations and bug reports. Which for many projects partially serves as an invitation to join in, too (as long as it's easy to do from there). > I think there is a reasonable point to be made that the CA prevents > certain valuable contributions from entering Emacs/GNU ELPA. IANAL, so > I don't know if a sign-off procedure would be a sufficient alternative? > But if I am a bit cynical, I cannot deny that having a CA-system can > also help filtering out a lot of noise and low-quality code (I'd claim > that the average quality of a ELPA package is higher than that of > packages on MELPA...). Virtually any barrier would increase the average quality of the code. If we required everybody to do fifty squats, film that, and attach together with the first patch submission, that would also increase the average quality, filtering out the less motivated. I'm not sure the cost-benefit ratio is good, though.