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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net>
Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>,
	34939@debbugs.gnu.org,
	pinkanon pinkanon <pinkanon.pinkanon@yandex.ru>
Subject: bug#34939: Some minibuffer behaviour is annoying
Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 14:00:27 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <c836f2cf-c57e-4d22-8744-c6443d756eb3@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87ef4foh6v.fsf@mail.linkov.net>

> > I haven't been following this thread.  But it looks
> > like this will use `minibuffer-message' for errors
> > raised during minibuffer input, and block `message',
> > except for logging.  Is that right?
> 
> No, it won't block messages.

It will block `message', not messages.  It will hijack
`message' to effect instead `minibuffer-message'.

That's not right or fair.  Code that calls `message'
should get `message' behavior.

> It will display messages together with the minibuffer contents
> instead of replacing it.

Which means that code that _intends_ `message'
behavior, which does (temporarily) replace your
input in the minibuffer, no longer does that.

No way around it - `message' just gets hijacked.

It is so _easy_ for any code to explicitly call
`minibuffer-message' when it wants that effect.
But now you want to make it impossible for code
that calls `message' to get `message' behavior.

Not needed and not the right thing.  You're
impoverishing Emacs behavior by replacing two
possible behaviors with one.

> Currently it requires the user to wait 2 seconds
> before the user can see the minibuffer contents again.

No, it does not.  User input cancels the `message'
text.  And this is during an overall input reading,
remember?  And code that calls `message' can invoke
`(message nil)' to also cancel the `message' text
at _any_ time it deems appropriate.  There is no
mandatory 2-sec wait, such as you suggest.

> Most often, this happens after typing M-n to see if any default values
> are available, and it replaces the minibuffer contents with the message
> “End of history; no default available”.

If you think there is a _particular_ context or
use of `message' that is problematic then fix that.
What you're proposing/doing instead is smashing
with a sledgehammer.

> I have to wait several times
> per day for this message to go away.  Totally it takes ~1 minute per day,
> ~300 minutes (5 hours) per year, and ~50 hours per decade - this is
> a whole workweek of just looking at the message and waiting for Godot.

Ridiculous exaggeration. I use `M-n' all the time
and have never had to wait like that.

This is a bad idea.  If you want to let users opt
in to such a reduction in behaviors then fine, please
do create a user option that lets them opt in for that.
No one will have a problem with that.





  reply	other threads:[~2019-05-30 21:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-03-21 19:13 bug#34939: Some minibuffer behaviour is annoying pinkanon pinkanon
2019-03-22 16:57 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-23  2:32   ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-23  9:46     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-23  9:50       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-23 11:24         ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-03-23 12:18           ` pinkanon pinkanon
     [not found]       ` <<83o961q5rr.fsf@gnu.org>
2019-03-23 15:51         ` Drew Adams
2019-03-31 19:50           ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-31 19:49 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-31 20:29   ` Juri Linkov
2019-04-01 13:08     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-01 20:31       ` Juri Linkov
2019-04-01 21:53         ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-03 20:50           ` Juri Linkov
2019-05-19 20:16       ` Juri Linkov
2019-04-01 10:10   ` pinkanon pinkanon
2019-04-01 20:25     ` Juri Linkov
2019-04-02 18:25       ` pinkanon pinkanon
2019-04-01 13:03   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-01 20:29     ` Juri Linkov
2019-04-07 20:43       ` Juri Linkov
2019-04-07 23:09         ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-08 19:47           ` Juri Linkov
2019-04-08 22:00             ` Drew Adams
2019-04-08 23:06               ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-08 23:32                 ` Drew Adams
2019-04-08 23:37                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-08 23:59                     ` Drew Adams
2019-04-09  0:11                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-04-09 18:26                         ` Drew Adams
2019-05-24 22:49   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-27 20:15     ` Juri Linkov
2019-05-27 20:58       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-29 21:53         ` Juri Linkov
2019-05-29 22:26           ` Drew Adams
2019-05-30 19:50             ` Juri Linkov
2019-05-30 21:00               ` Drew Adams [this message]
2019-05-30 21:35                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-06-03 20:27           ` Juri Linkov
2019-06-04 15:15             ` Dmitry Gutov

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