From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20540: 25.0.50; Document tooltip woes, including `help-echo' Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 07:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <<795eb88f-e9e7-4728-82d8-32d0caea52fb@default>> <<83d229no4x.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431268646 12414 80.91.229.3 (10 May 2015 14:37:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 14:37:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20540@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 10 16:37:13 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YrSLv-0002uF-QO for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 16:37:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33725 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrSLu-00083C-Ok for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:37:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:32815) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrSLr-000837-Mp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:37:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrSLm-0007TR-RK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:37:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:58400) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrSLm-0007TL-NU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:37:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YrSLm-00028D-3k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:37:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 14:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20540 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20540-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20540.14312685948154 (code B ref 20540); Sun, 10 May 2015 14:37:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20540) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 May 2015 14:36:34 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YrSLJ-00027S-7L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:36:33 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:17925) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YrSLG-00027B-Fw for 20540@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:36:31 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t4AEaOnD006167 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 May 2015 14:36:24 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t4AEaN0T020737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 May 2015 14:36:24 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t4AEaNLX020679; Sun, 10 May 2015 14:36:23 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83d229no4x.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:102633 Archived-At: > You've omitted the facts you've found, for some reason. That's a > bad idea: since no one really knows about these limitations, Someone who understands the code (C code, IIUC) can discover them. > if you want to raise the chances that this bug report will be acted > upon, I urge you to describe everything you tried and found not to > work, so that whoever takes upon this task will have the "bread-crumbs" > to go by. Otherwise, researching this issue from scratch is an > unpleasant task that is unlikely to find its volunteer. Thanks. I'll try. But I don't have many such "facts". Someone familiar with the code would need to specify what is and is not possible for users to do. I would hope that some of the limitations would be removed, but any limitations should be documented. I mention here some superficial tests I tried, in case it helps. > > 1. If you create a tooltip using, say, `x-show-tip', you can > > control the font, text color and size, background color, etc. > > Well, only some frame parameters seem to have any effect, when > > passed in argument PARMS. Just which parameters can or cannot be > > used for PARMS should be documented. (defun foo (&optional height) (interactive (list (and current-prefix-arg (prefix-numeric-value current-prefix-arg)))) (unless height (setq height 1)) (x-show-tip (propertize (string (char-after)) 'face `(:foreground "red" :height ,(* 200 height))))) Other face parameters (e.g. :font) do not seem to be reflected. Likewise frame parameters (arg PARMS). I also tried binding `tooltip-frame-parameters' in such a function, but couldn't get that to change the tooltip frame parameters either. I also tried customizing face `tooltip', but that seems to have no effect for `x-show-tip' or for `help-echo' tooltips for `tooltip-mode'. Perhaps that is normal for MS Windows, but I don't see any doc about it. > > 2. The word `tooltip' is hardly mentioned in the doc. Another doc > > fix would be to document `tooltip-mode' properly in the Elisp manual, > > saying which frame parameters you can use for `tooltip-frame-parameters= ', > > etc. The only "facts" here are from searching the Emacs and Elisp manuals. The Emacs manual has node `Tooltips', and there are other places where "tooltip" is mentioned, but they essentially refer to node `Tooltips'. The Elisp manual, which is really what I care about in this context, has a few occurrences of "tooltip", which say that tooltip frames do not count for this or that operation. E.g. `Deleting Frames' says "Unless FRAME is a tooltip...". Node `Special Properties' mentions the word in passing, and sends you to the Emacs manual, node `Tooltips'. IOW, nothing technical about tooltips here - just mention of what a tooltip is. Other occurrences of the term in the Elisp manual do not add anything in this regard. > > 3. A related bug in `tooltip.el' is that the defcustom for > > `tooltip-frame-parameters' has no :type. Impossible for a user to > > customize the value properly using Customize. And no help about > > which parameters can be used effectively (see #2, above). That fact is expressed clearly enough, no? > > 4. `help-echo': No doc saying whether the string can be > > propertized, and if so, which properties have any effect. That fact is expressed clearly enough, no? > > Although `x-show-tip' seems to let you change the char size, color, > > background color, etc., and you can use property `display' with > > `help-echo', Do you need an example of using `display' with `help-echo'? I use a sexp like this for `help-echo' in dired+.el, to show a thumbnail preview of an image file on mouseover: (propertize " " 'display (create-image file)) > > apparently you cannot change the face attributes of the `help-echo' > > string so that the appearance changes. This is quite a limitation, > > AFAICT. (defun foo () (interactive) (add-text-properties (line-beginning-position) (+ 20 (line-beginning-position)) `(mouse-face underline help-echo ,(propertize (word-at-point) 'face '(:foreground "red" :height 200))))) The tooltip does not reflect what `propertize' should do here. > > All of this kind of thing should be documented: what you can and > > cannot do - which parameters have an effect. You can make > > `help-echo' show an image instead of text, See above. > > but you cannot simply change the text appearance of a `help-echo' > > string? How are users supposed to guess what is possible? > > Should be documented. HTH. I don't really know what is allowed and what is not - or why.