all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: p.stephani2@gmail.com, philippe.vaucher@gmail.com, 23529@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#23529: Request for fixing randomize_va_space build issues
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2016 01:54:07 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <c74dafef-53ff-7a6e-d905-2583c1a78451@cs.ucla.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83d1kd8qb7.fsf@gnu.org>

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Lisp objects are referenced through the obarray

Sure, but they are also referenced in many other ways. The obarray is just one 
corner of this.

>> Sure, but that's true of any dumping method.
>
> Writing out the dumped data is almost trivial

Not really. Not nowadays.

>> The advantage of dumping to C code is that the compiler and linker
>> will deserialize it for you.
>
> That's true, but I think you pay much more in the serialization phase.

That's fine. Serialization is rare, typically just when Emacs is built. 
Deserialization is much more common, typically whenever Emacs starts up. So it 
can be a win to speed up and simplify deserialization at the expense of 
serialization.

> the compiler and the linker were not meant for these jobs

I don't see why today's compilers and linkers wouldn't be up to these jobs. 
Emacs is not that large by today's standards. The proof of that will be in the 
pudding, no?

> writing the dumped data and then reading it with fixups is
> something we can do ourselves without relying on any external
> technologies which need to be bent to our needs.

I don't think so. We need to rely on and/or work around properties of address 
randomization which will be platform-dependent. It will be tempting to do the 
job poorly, and lose any reliability and/or security benefits of randomization 
that we might otherwise get for free. Letting the compiler and linker do this 
work for us will save us work in the long run.

> As the number of people who are able to futz with Emacs
> internals at this depth continues to dwindle,

This is exactly why we should let the compiler- and linker-writers do this work 
for us.





  reply	other threads:[~2016-09-09  8:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-05-13 12:18 bug#23529: Request for fixing randomize_va_space build issues Philippe Vaucher
2016-05-13 15:58 ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-17 16:38   ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-05-18  7:53     ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-05-18  8:21     ` Paul Eggert
2016-05-18  8:44       ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-05-20 17:52         ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-06  9:22           ` Philipp Stephani
2016-09-06 17:21             ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-06 17:40               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-06 17:46                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-09-06 17:55                   ` Philipp Stephani
2016-09-06 18:04                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-06 17:59                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-06 18:03                     ` Philipp Stephani
2016-09-06 18:32                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-06 19:01                         ` Philipp Stephani
2016-09-06 18:24                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-09-06 19:11                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-06 18:18                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-09-06 19:09                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-06 19:59                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-09-06 18:44                 ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-06 19:18                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-06 20:37                     ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-07  7:12                       ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-09-07  7:40                         ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-07 11:01                           ` Philipp Stephani
2016-09-07 14:21                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-07 16:11                         ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-07 17:10                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-07 17:40                             ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-07 18:11                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-07 20:12                                 ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-09  5:40                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-09  7:10                                     ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-09  7:50                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-09  8:54                                         ` Paul Eggert [this message]
2016-09-09  9:09                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-09 16:16                                             ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-09 18:45                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-09 19:59                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-10  6:06                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-10  7:52                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-10 10:19                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-10 23:01                                                         ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-11 15:23                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-11 16:59                                                             ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-11 17:19                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-11 19:32                                                             ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-09-12  2:30                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-12  2:58                                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-09-12  6:09                                                                   ` Philipp Stephani
2016-09-12 17:04                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-12 14:10                                                                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-09-12 14:18                                                                   ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-09-13 14:47                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-13 15:21                                                                       ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-09-13 15:55                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-13 15:51                                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2016-09-13 19:24                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-09 20:00                                               ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-09-10  6:13                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-09-09 18:29                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2016-09-09 18:56                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2019-09-14  4:18 bug#13964: " Stefan Kangas
2019-09-14  8:52 ` Philippe Vaucher
2019-09-14 10:39   ` Stefan Kangas

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=c74dafef-53ff-7a6e-d905-2583c1a78451@cs.ucla.edu \
    --to=eggert@cs.ucla.edu \
    --cc=23529@debbugs.gnu.org \
    --cc=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=p.stephani2@gmail.com \
    --cc=philippe.vaucher@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.