From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rusi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 10:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <87sicvwckx.fsf@wmi.amu.edu.pl> <87wq27yvqg.fsf@debian.uxu> <8d531e99-7260-4263-ac99-09c6871e2708@googlegroups.com> <87vbhq53lf.fsf@debian.uxu> <87a8z23p23.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87lhilx0cf.fsf@debian.uxu> <87twx9360u.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <0d1d19ab-06e9-462d-8867-9a49b1e232d3@googlegroups.com> <87lhil2io1.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87h9t92chk.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <2227597f-1d99-4283-a3df-505663eb175b@googlegroups.com> <87ego5jemn.fsf@debian.uxu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1427822722 11348 80.91.229.3 (31 Mar 2015 17:25:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 17:25:22 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 31 19:25:22 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yczug-00046O-DX for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2015 19:25:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39840 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yczuf-0003aW-JQ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2015 13:25:17 -0400 X-Received: by 10.43.100.138 with SMTP id cw10mr24016503icc.5.1427822570978; Tue, 31 Mar 2015 10:22:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.141.134 with SMTP id ro6mr92069igb.0.1427822570925; Tue, 31 Mar 2015 10:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!h15no2615676igd.0!news-out.google.com!db6ni3241igc.0!nntp.google.com!h15no2615673igd.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help In-Reply-To: <87ego5jemn.fsf@debian.uxu> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=117.195.39.94; posting-account=mBpa7woAAAAGLEWUUKpmbxm-Quu5D8ui Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 117.195.39.94 User-Agent: G2/1.0 Injection-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 17:22:50 +0000 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:211189 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:103471 Archived-At: On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 10:15:45 PM UTC+5:30, Emanuel Berg wrote: > Rusi writes: >=20 > > I wrote: Hey! Emacs (Elisp) is civilized! > > followed by definitions of ... >=20 > Just because something is more specific, supposedly > advanced (in isolation), and possible to do (of course > it is), it doesn't mean it is a good idea. >=20 > Fore example: HTML mails instead of ASCII ditto, LaTeX > homepages (i.e., PDF files) vs. HTML, GUIs vs. CLI, > the mouse vs. the keyboard - all more recent, > supposedly more advanced methods, all possible, and > realized long ago. >=20 > Question: But then, why do so many people still don't > like them, and won't use them? >=20 > Answer: If you keep it simple, stick to the basics, > then the limit is on you - and, if you master the > basics (which you never do, completely, which is > natural, and a good thing), then the *sky* is the > limit. But: if you master the GUI, the GUI is > the limit! >=20 > This is why the people who use the basic, simple, but > combinable stuff are much better at computers, because > they don't put chains on themselves to crop their > creativity, activity, and energy. Even tho the basic > stuff is more difficult day one, very soon the > specific-stuff-people will hit the ceiling, a ceiling > which doesn't exist for the basic-stuff-people - their > ceiling is their own dedication and energy, and as > long as they have that, they are on an > upward trajectory. >=20 Ok So far... After all unicode is TEXT (in 2015) as ASCII was in the last century. And text is universal as unixers have known for half a century=C2=B9... IOW Unicode is NOT -- selling one's shirt (and soul) to a corp peddling a word-processing soft= ware -- Nor is it about learning some arcane coding system where if one wants x=E2=82=80 we have to write something ugly like $x_0$ I want x=E2=82=80 I have x=E2=82=80 I want =CE=BB =CE=B1 =CE=94 I have = =CE=BB =CE=B1 =CE=94, as simple as that =20 The only cost is input methods. For which as I already pointed out emacs tex-input method puts the cost of the string "=CE=BB =CE=B1 =CE=94" at "\lambda \alpha \Delta" IOW the lambda/alpha/Delta is what one would type anyway. The extra backslash costs about as much as a shift costs to capitalize. And tex input method is the more clumsy. If you use greek a hell of a lot you can use greek keyboard. After that =CE=B4 =CE=94 cost EXACTLY the same as the English d D apart from the C-\ needed to switch > Just look: You already discuss what chars are > included, what chars should be included, and so on. > So the limitation is what chars you can and can not > print?! That is bizarre! I have no idea what you are saying here=E2=80=A6 -------------- =C2=B9 Well not strictly true; see http://blog.languager.org/2014/04/unicod= e-and-unix-assumption.html