Feedback on Scheduling?

Feedback on Scheduling?

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi,

has anybody tried version 4.29, and in particular the scheduling part?
I would like to have some feedback if possible:

- does the scheduling from the agenda global todo list work
- have you noticed that SCHEDULED, DEADLINE and CLOSED
   are now all forced to be in the second line of an entry,
   no matter where you are when you press C-c C-s or C-c Cd?
- have you noticed that scheduling an item removes any
   CLOSED time stamp, and closing an item removes any
   SCHEDULED time stamp?
- do you think the above behavior is reasonable?
- should assigning a new deadline to an item remove any
   CLOSED timestamp, just like for scheduling?

Thanks.

- Carsten

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: Feedback on Scheduling?

[Pete Phillips]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:


    Carsten> - does the scheduling from the agenda global todo list work

Haven't tried this yet.

    Carsten> - have you noticed that SCHEDULED, DEADLINE and CLOSED are
    Carsten> now all forced to be in the second line of an entry, no

Yep - and personally I don't like it. I try to keep each outline heading
complete - everything for that item together - description, tags,
schedule date. This is a personal preference for me as I use the tag to
produce my lists of things to do (on to hipster cards) within that
context, and only extract the headline, not any text underneath.

Pete

Re: Feedback on Scheduling?

[Tim O'Callaghan]

On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 06:19:12PM +0100, Pete Phillips wrote:
> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Carsten> - does the scheduling from the agenda global todo list work
> 
> Haven't tried this yet.
> 
>     Carsten> - have you noticed that SCHEDULED, DEADLINE and CLOSED are
>     Carsten> now all forced to be in the second line of an entry, no
> 
> Yep - and personally I don't like it. I try to keep each outline heading
> complete - everything for that item together - description, tags,
> schedule date. This is a personal preference for me as I use the tag to
> produce my lists of things to do (on to hipster cards) within that
> context, and only extract the headline, not any text underneath.
> 

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, how do you produce your
hipster cards from org mode?

Tim.

Re: Feedback on Scheduling?

[Pete Phillips]

Tim O'Callaghan <timo@dspsrv.com> wrote:

    Tim> I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, how do you produce
    Tim> your hipster cards from org mode?

Hi Tim

I have a simple perl script which I run from a Makefile.

The perl script is at:

	http://www.philfam.co.uk/pete/GTD/org-na/org-na.pl

The Makefile I use is attached at the end. Basically I have a list of
all my 'contexts' (GTD-speak) which I use as tags in org-mode. Running :

    make home

will make the postscript files and print them.

This will therefore take:

	** Get wood preservative for Shed :Shopping:
	** Paint shed with preservative :DIY:

and add the first line to the 'Shopping' card and the second to my 'DIY'
card.

I keep meaning to add some options to allow printing on A4 etc, but am
pushed for time at the moment. :-(

Don't forget - you will need to adjust the location of your org-mode
file in the perl source, and the makefile needs to point to your printer
which will print the index cards.

Enjoy.

Pete

-----Makefile-------------------
# Print out NA lists from ~/TODO/TODO.org


home:  LaptopH.ps PhoneH.ps Home.ps Sofa.ps ComputerH.ps WaitingH.ps Shopping.ps
work:  LaptopS.ps PhoneS.ps Office.ps TG.ps WaitingS.ps CAG.ps

%.ps: %.dvi
        dvips  $<

%.dvi: %.tex
        latex $<

%.tex: TODO.org
        /home/pete/src/org-na/org-na.pl -t $* > $@

Was: Feedback on Scheduling? - How do you use yours?

[Tim O'Callaghan]

On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 08:49:58PM +0100, Pete Phillips wrote:
> 
> 
> Tim O'Callaghan <timo@dspsrv.com> wrote:
> 
>     Tim> I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, how do you produce
>     Tim> your hipster cards from org mode?
> 
> Hi Tim
> 
> I have a simple perl script which I run from a Makefile.
> 
> The perl script is at:
> 
> 	http://www.philfam.co.uk/pete/GTD/org-na/org-na.pl
> 
> The Makefile I use is attached at the end. Basically I have a list of
> all my 'contexts' (GTD-speak) which I use as tags in org-mode. Running :
> 
>     make home
> 
> will make the postscript files and print them.
> 
> This will therefore take:
> 
> 	** Get wood preservative for Shed :Shopping:
> 	** Paint shed with preservative :DIY:
> 
> and add the first line to the 'Shopping' card and the second to my 'DIY'
> card.
> 

Interesting. This kind of thing should go into some kind of contrib
directory, or add a link to the emacs wiki org page or something.

Its also interesting that you use tags for GTD context. This is the
way i use tags, and i have been wondering if anyone else used them
like this.

> I keep meaning to add some options to allow printing on A4 etc, but am
> pushed for time at the moment. :-(
> 
<Snip/>

An interesting idea, one that i was kicking about for a bit when i was
using a hipster style PDA. I was thinking about generating XSLFO or
SWF based templates, and merging the information into the XML template
for printing. XSLFO is a pain, so i went for SWF, which is a pain but
less so. SWF has the advantage of being scalable if designed properly,
and supported by inkscape, which makes creating templates easy. I
experimented with ImageMagick and an SWF based templates for automatic
processing. I got an experimental SWF template from all things hipster:
diyplanner.org. Unfortunately ImageMagick did not support SWF well
enough for me to want to continue :(

In the end i opted for a paperless system.

I'd be interested to hear how other org users are implementing GTD. If
for nothing else that to be able to cherry pick ideas that i can
incorporate into my system. 

I shall explain my primitive implementation of org mode.

My system is based around one big org mode file for personal stuff and
one for work. I can edit the file in other editors (such as the one on
my smartphone) and search for GTD context via tags. The symbol
:TAGNAME: is unique enough to search on when i need context, and works 
to find tagged lines using every editor i know of.

External editors do not support the org mode 'file:' references, so i
am strict about keeping only Next Actions and possible Next Actions in
the org file. I keep reference material in a another appropriately named
file in the same directory.

an example could be:  (Where X=TODO)
---
* 101 things to do in Denver when you're dead                  :BORED:
  This is about not being Bored in Denver. The full list of Denver
  based shenanigans can be found in:
  file:101ThingsToDoInDenverWhenYoureDead.org

*** Don't loose your head 
    People keep on saying they don't like the way i look at them?
    file:PreferredHeadShapes.org

***** X Buy a new head                                         :BUY:
***** replace head with new one

*** Go skiing                                                  :MAYBE:
    Always wanted to Ski in Denver. 
    file:SkiingInformation.org

***** X Buy new legs                                           :BUY:
***** probably want to buy skis that fit the feet of my new legs
---

I also make sure the context tags and the text of the item will inform
me of the project they are related to. So I don't need the reference
material unless referred to by the text of the Next Action, and then
only because it does not fit in one line. 

When this occurs i use a RadioName type search reference so that
whatever the editor it can find the symbol in the file, as it should
be unique.

Does anyone else implement a GTD based system? and if so, how so?

Tim.

Re: Was: Feedback on Scheduling? - How do you use yours?

[Pete Phillips]

[Once more - but to the list this time!  :-( ]


Tim O'Callaghan <timo@dspsrv.com> wrote:

    Tim> Its also interesting that you use tags for GTD context. This is
    Tim> the way i use tags, and i have been wondering if anyone else
    Tim> used them like this.

I'm glad - I was in discussion with Carsten for a while regarding
org-mode, when he came up with this brilliant idea of tags - as soon as
he proposed it, I could see that it would fit into my GTD system
straight away (I moved from a Zaurus list manager to org-mode+hipster
last August, but have been using GTD since the original hardback book
came out).

    Tim> An interesting idea, one that i was kicking about for a bit
    Tim> when i was using a hipster style PDA. I was thinking about
    Tim> generating XSLFO or SWF based templates, and merging the
    Tim> information into the XML template for printing. XSLFO is a
    Tim> pain, so i went for SWF, which is a pain but less so. SWF has
    Tim> the advantage of being scalable if designed properly, and
    Tim> supported by inkscape, which makes creating templates easy. I
    Tim> experimented with ImageMagick and an SWF based templates for
    Tim> automatic processing. I got an experimental SWF template from
    Tim> all things hipster: diyplanner.org. Unfortunately ImageMagick
    Tim> did not support SWF well enough for me to want to continue :(

Basically I used lyx to design the template and then exported it to
latex to see what I needed to add from the perl script. I have a bit of
experience with XML and XSL (our woundcare journal,
www.worldwidewounds.com, is prepared using docbook XML) but I have never
got to grips with the FO model.

    Tim> In the end i opted for a paperless system.

No good for me as I need something with me all the time. I find the PDA
too slow, and the HPDA fast and flexible. Combining my laptop org-mode
with HPDA has been terrific (for me - I readily acknowledge that this is
a game of horses for courses).

    Tim> I'd be interested to hear how other org users are implementing
    Tim> GTD. If for nothing else that to be able to cherry pick ideas
    Tim> that i can incorporate into my system.

Me also.

    Tim> My system is based around one big org mode file for personal
    Tim> stuff and one for work. I can edit the file in other editors
    Tim> (such as the one on my smartphone) and search for GTD context
    Tim> via tags. The symbol :TAGNAME: is unique enough to search on
    Tim> when i need context, and works to find tagged lines using every
    Tim> editor i know of.

Yep. By the way, you can also set up a shell script to mail your file to
a gmail account every night, so you have unlimited (well, almost)
backupand archive. I set up a special archive gmail account just for
this. with 2.?? Gb of space, I won't be running out of space soon.

    Tim> External editors do not support the org mode 'file:'
    Tim> references, so i am strict about keeping only Next Actions and
    Tim> possible Next Actions in the org file. I keep reference
    Tim> material in a another appropriately named file in the same
    Tim> directory.

I keep the lot in one big file. That's the advantage of using outline
mode - you can collapse gobs of text into nothing just by pressing the
<TAB> key. Less to keep track of and remember, and makes the perl script
-> HPDA doable.

    Tim> I also make sure the context tags and the text of the item will
    Tim> inform me of the project they are related to. So I don't need
    Tim> the reference material unless referred to by the text of the
    Tim> Next Action, and then only because it does not fit in one line.

Yep - I need to make sure that the headline has enough info so that when
printed onto the HPDA I can understand/recall what it relates to.

Regards,
Pete

Tim.

Re: Was: Feedback on Scheduling? - How do you use yours?

[Carsten Dominik]

On May 17, 2006, at 9:41, Pete Phillips wrote:
>
> I'm glad - I was in discussion with Carsten for a while regarding
> org-mode, when he came up with this brilliant idea of tags

Just for the record:  Half of the credit goes to Pete himself by 
defining the problem that can be solved with TAGS, testing what I had 
and asking for refinement, boolean logic etc.

- Carsten

Re: Feedback on Scheduling?

[Carsten Dominik]

On May 17, 2006, at 11:15, David Emery wrote:

> On Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 18:19:12 +0100, Pete Phillips 
> <pete@smtl.co.uk> wrote:
>> Yep - and personally I don't like it. I try to keep each outline 
>> heading
>> complete - everything for that item together - description, tags,
>> schedule date.
>
> I agree - I prefer the dates on the same line as the headline.


Starting with org-mode 4.30 (not yet released, but soon)

    (setq org-insert-labeled-timestamps-at-point t)


However, when you schedule from the global TODO list, org-mode cannot 
know where you would like to have the timestamp, so it will put it into 
the second line anyway.

- Carsten

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: Feedback on Scheduling?

[David Emery]

On Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 18:19:12 +0100, Pete Phillips <pete@smtl.co.uk> wrote:
> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
>     Carsten> - does the scheduling from the agenda global todo list work
> Haven't tried this yet.

Yes, works for me.

>     Carsten> - have you noticed that SCHEDULED, DEADLINE and CLOSED are
>     Carsten> now all forced to be in the second line of an entry, no
> Yep - and personally I don't like it. I try to keep each outline heading
> complete - everything for that item together - description, tags,
> schedule date. 

I agree - I prefer the dates on the same line as the headline. 

Dave

Re: Was: Feedback on Scheduling? - How do you use yours?

[Tim O'Callaghan]

On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 08:41:22AM +0100, Pete Phillips wrote:
> 
>     Tim> Its also interesting that you use tags for GTD context. This is
>     Tim> the way i use tags, and i have been wondering if anyone else
>     Tim> used them like this.
> 
> I'm glad - I was in discussion with Carsten for a while regarding
> org-mode, when he came up with this brilliant idea of tags - as soon as
> he proposed it, I could see that it would fit into my GTD system
> straight away (I moved from a Zaurus list manager to org-mode+hipster
> last August, but have been using GTD since the original hardback book
> came out).
> 

I thought it was a good idea as well, i'm glad it was implemented :)
Its perfect for keeping context on an item.

>     Tim> An interesting idea, one that i was kicking about for a bit
>     Tim> when i was using a hipster style PDA. I was thinking about
>     Tim> generating XSLFO or SWF based templates, and merging the
>     Tim> information into the XML template for printing. XSLFO is a
>     Tim> pain, so i went for SWF, which is a pain but less so. SWF has
>     Tim> the advantage of being scalable if designed properly, and
>     Tim> supported by inkscape, which makes creating templates easy. I
>     Tim> experimented with ImageMagick and an SWF based templates for
>     Tim> automatic processing. I got an experimental SWF template from
>     Tim> all things hipster: diyplanner.org. Unfortunately ImageMagick
>     Tim> did not support SWF well enough for me to want to continue :(
> 
> Basically I used lyx to design the template and then exported it to
> latex to see what I needed to add from the perl script. I have a bit of
> experience with XML and XSL (our woundcare journal,
> www.worldwidewounds.com, is prepared using docbook XML) but I have never
> got to grips with the FO model.
> 

It does takes some getting used to. I just realized that when i said
SWF what i meant was SVG.  I think SVG is the way to go. You can
easily create an XML template in Inkscape, the hard part is rendering
the transformed version outside of Inkscape for printing. I think
batik will do it, but i gave up on the hipster before i got that far.

>     Tim> In the end i opted for a paperless system.
> 
> No good for me as I need something with me all the time. I find the PDA
> too slow, and the HPDA fast and flexible. Combining my laptop org-mode
> with HPDA has been terrific (for me - I readily acknowledge that this is
> a game of horses for courses).
> 

I keep a copy of my org files on an MMC that i keep in my
phone. Easier to review and keep in sync.

>     Tim> I'd be interested to hear how other org users are implementing
>     Tim> GTD. If for nothing else that to be able to cherry pick ideas
>     Tim> that i can incorporate into my system.
> 
> Me also.
> 
>     Tim> My system is based around one big org mode file for personal
>     Tim> stuff and one for work. I can edit the file in other editors
>     Tim> (such as the one on my smartphone) and search for GTD context
>     Tim> via tags. The symbol :TAGNAME: is unique enough to search on
>     Tim> when i need context, and works to find tagged lines using every
>     Tim> editor i know of.
> 
> Yep. By the way, you can also set up a shell script to mail your file to
> a gmail account every night, so you have unlimited (well, almost)
> backupand archive. I set up a special archive gmail account just for
> this. with 2.?? Gb of space, I won't be running out of space soon.
> 
>     Tim> External editors do not support the org mode 'file:'
>     Tim> references, so i am strict about keeping only Next Actions and
>     Tim> possible Next Actions in the org file. I keep reference
>     Tim> material in a another appropriately named file in the same
>     Tim> directory.
> 
> I keep the lot in one big file. That's the advantage of using outline
> mode - you can collapse gobs of text into nothing just by pressing the
> <TAB> key. Less to keep track of and remember, and makes the perl script
> -> HPDA doable.
> 

I started doing this, but it quickly got out of hand for me. The stuff
is not hidden when you reviewing the information in an editor that does
not support outline mode.

>     Tim> I also make sure the context tags and the text of the item will
>     Tim> inform me of the project they are related to. So I don't need
>     Tim> the reference material unless referred to by the text of the
>     Tim> Next Action, and then only because it does not fit in one line.
> 
> Yep - I need to make sure that the headline has enough info so that when
> printed onto the HPDA I can understand/recall what it relates to.
> 

Do you have any interesting tools to help the weekly review? how do
you implement your tickler file?

The hardest thing for me at the moment is syncing the Calendar
information into my phones Calendar application.

Tim.

Re: Was: Feedback on Scheduling? - How do you use yours?

[Kevin Coates]

> > Yep - I need to make sure that the headline has enough info so that when
> > printed onto the HPDA I can understand/recall what it relates to.

I'm also using a perl script to turn my org file of
* ProjectName    :Project:
** NextAction     :Context1:
** AnotherNextAction     :Context2:

into
(i) a list of Projects (ie all items tagged with :Project:); and
(ii) individual pages for each :context: tags with a list of
corresponding next actions

One way that helps me remember what the next action is about is to
append [ProjectName] to the next action so the output is:

Context
- NextAction [ProjectName]

> Do you have any interesting tools to help the weekly review?

Only thing I've come up with so far is to generate a list of Projects
(identified by the :Project: tag) which have no next actions (ie where
the next item in the org outline also has a :Project: tag.

Also on the list of projects I'm printing them as
ProjectName [number of next actions]
which helps me see where projects have a lot of stuff building up

It's all fairly rudimentary at the moment, particularly as I'm using
this as a way to learn perl - I'm a lawyer not a programmer ;-) - but
I'm having fun.

> how do you implement your tickler file?

So far I don't have one.  I have been thinking about a separate
"reminders" file with the format:
StartDate, DueDate, NextAction :context:
Then amending the perl script to parse this file as well so that any
nextactions whose startdate is on or before today also get included in
the context lists generated above.

--
Kevin

Re: Was: Feedback on Scheduling? - How do you use yours?

[Tim O'Callaghan]

On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 03:59:58PM +0200, Kevin Coates wrote:
> >> Yep - I need to make sure that the headline has enough info so 
> >that when
> >> printed onto the HPDA I can understand/recall what it relates to.
> 
> I'm also using a perl script to turn my org file of
> * ProjectName    :Project:
> ** NextAction     :Context1:
> ** AnotherNextAction     :Context2:
> 
> into
> (i) a list of Projects (ie all items tagged with :Project:); and
> (ii) individual pages for each :context: tags with a list of
> corresponding next actions
> 
> One way that helps me remember what the next action is about is to
> append [ProjectName] to the next action so the output is:
> 
> Context
> - NextAction [ProjectName]
> 

I like the :Project: TAG idea, i'm going to start using that one
myself. Any chance you could post the perl script for those
of us who are interested?

> >Do you have any interesting tools to help the weekly review?
> 
> Only thing I've come up with so far is to generate a list of Projects
> (identified by the :Project: tag) which have no next actions (ie 
> where
> the next item in the org outline also has a :Project: tag.
> 
> Also on the list of projects I'm printing them as
> ProjectName [number of next actions]
> which helps me see where projects have a lot of stuff building up
> 
> It's all fairly rudimentary at the moment, particularly as I'm using
> this as a way to learn perl - I'm a lawyer not a programmer ;-) - but
> I'm having fun.
> 

Perl is surprising like that :) 

I also like this idea, Its like a management summary on my
performance. A report to myself on how well i'm doing on my projects
and next actions.

> >how do you implement your tickler file?
> 
> So far I don't have one.  I have been thinking about a separate
> "reminders" file with the format:
> StartDate, DueDate, NextAction :context:
> Then amending the perl script to parse this file as well so that any
> nextactions whose startdate is on or before today also get included 
> in
> the context lists generated above.
> 

I've been using a folder and my Calendar. A 'memo' set on the
appropriate date. Its not integrated into org mode, but it seems to be
working. I'm not sure if its idea yet, but i'm sticking with it for
the moment, as i want to try and avoid as much yak shaving as i can.

Tim.

Re: Was: Feedback on Scheduling? - How do you use yours?

[Kevin]

> I like the :Project: TAG idea, i'm going to start using that one
> myself. Any chance you could post the perl script for those
> of us who are interested?

Here you go (not sure what'll happen to the formatting). And this is
my first piece of perl, so be gentle ;-)

#used on org files that have the structure:
# * Projectname :Project:
# ** NextActionA :Context1:
# ** NextActionB :Context2:

# %hash_TagsLine: hash with keys=tags
# @{$hash_TagsLine{$tag}: set of arrays, one for each tag whose
contents are all items with that tag
# %actionsperproject: hash with keys=project name and values = number
of next actions for each project
# @emptyprojects: array with a list of the empty projects


@ARGV = "d:/Documents/txt/Next Actions Outline.org"; #hard coded org file
while  ($line=<>){                      #go through each line of org file
    chomp;                              # remove line breaks
    foreach $tag ($line =~ /:(\w+):/g){ # find the tag in the current line
        $line =~ s/:$tag://;            # remove the tag
	$line =~ s/\*//g;                # remove "*"
	$line =~ s/^\s+//;              # remove leading spaces
	$line =~ s/\s+$//;              # remove  trailing spaces
	$line =~ s/\s+/ /g;             # replace every group of one or more
spaces with a single space

        if ($tag eq "Project")
	        {
		if ($nextactions eq "0"){push (@emptyprojects, "$projectname")}; #if
we get to a Project and nextactions still equals zero, then we have an
empty project
          	push @{$hash_TagsLine{$tag}}, "$line"; #add this line to
the project list array
          	$projectname = "$line"; #keep the name of the project for
appending to the next actions
		$nextactions = 0; # as this is a new project, reset the next actions to zero
          }
          else { #if this is not a new project
	      $nextactions = $nextactions + 1; #it's a next action so update the count
	      $actionsperproject{$projectname} = "$nextactions"; #update the
hash with the latest next actions count for this project
	      $encodedline = $line." [$projectname]";	#add the project name
to the next action
	      push  @{$hash_TagsLine{$tag}}, "$encodedline"; #add to this tag's array
          }
     }
}


> I've been using a folder and my Calendar. A 'memo' set on the
> appropriate date. Its not integrated into org mode, but it seems to be
> working. I'm not sure if its idea yet, but i'm sticking with it for
> the moment, as i want to try and avoid as much yak shaving as i can.

Yup, yak shaving is something I have to admit to.  Though per "pure"
GTD, a reminder to me two weeks in advance of a birthday that I should
sort out a card and present should appear at the right time on my next
actions list, rather than my calendar.

Kevin