From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24596: 25.1; `f10' behavior Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 09:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <> <<838tu5pg0x.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1475512741 25365 195.159.176.226 (3 Oct 2016 16:39:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:39:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 24596@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 03 18:38:56 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1br6GJ-0004jZ-VJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 18:38:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38163 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1br6GI-0003JO-I4 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:38:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42068) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1br6Bq-0007r5-8B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:34:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1br6Bm-0003MF-AO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:34:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:36985) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1br6Bm-0003MA-6f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:34:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1br6Bm-0005DC-10 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:34:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 16:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24596 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 24596-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24596.147551244020026 (code B ref 24596); Mon, 03 Oct 2016 16:34:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 24596) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Oct 2016 16:34:00 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43175 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1br6Bi-0005Cv-Mt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:33:59 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:24160) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1br6Bg-0005CZ-TX for 24596@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:33:57 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u93GXoE6021743 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:33:50 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u93GXn5I002566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:33:50 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u93GXmEK023132; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:33:49 GMT In-Reply-To: <<838tu5pg0x.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 12.0.6753.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:123963 Archived-At: > > `f10' used to just be bound to `tmm-menubar', for both TTY and > > graphic-display Emacs. Now it is bound to `menu-bar-open'. >=20 > Not true: F10 in a GUI session, at least on Windows, always activated > the GUI menus from the menu bar. I just tried that in Emacs 23.1. >=20 > What you say is only true for a TTY frame. It was changed when > text-mode frames learned to display menus. You're right about that. I was thinking of M-`, I guess (which is still `tmm-menubar' by default). > > 1. User option `tty-menu-open-use-tmm' makes `f10' use `tmm-menubar' > > instead, but only on TTY. Why not also on graphic displays? >=20 > Because F10 never invoked tmm on GUI frames, at least not on > MS-Windows. If you are asking for a new feature, then I guess it > could be added if enough people want it, but then the variable's name > will need to change, of course. Yes. > > 2. Why can you not exit `menu-bar-open' (with nil > > `tty-menu-open-use-tmm')? Why is ESC the only way to cancel (at least > > on MS Windows)? Why are not the canonical Emacs ways of canceling > > implemented here (`C-g' and `ESC ESC ESC')? >=20 > ESC ESC works for me on MS-Windows GUI frames. For me, with emacs -Q, a single ESC cancels. A second ESC acts as a prefix key for the next key sequence. > ESC ESC ESC and C-g > work for me on TTY frames. C-g doesn't work on a GUI frame because > the menu is controlled by Windows, not by Emacs, and Windows doesn't > know about C-g. IOW, this is a limitation we can do very little > about. OK. Then the fix is to fix the doc, which says something quite different from what the behavior really is. > > 4. The doc in the Emacs manual (node Menu Bar) is not too bad. But > > AFAICT, `C-g' does NOT work (in MS Windows), as it says it does. It > > also says that you can cancel using `ESC ESC ESC'. But the doc of > > `w32-menu-bar-open' (correctly) says that a single `ESC' cancels. Dunn= o > > whether this is a doc bug or the behavior (on Windows) is bugged. >=20 > You are trying to apply the description of what happens with TTY menus > to GUI menus. They don't behave the same. Where do you see that that doc says that what it is describing is limited to TTYs? In fact, the faulty description (for MS Windows, in any case) is in the paragraph _before_ the paragraph that starts talking about the behavior in a text terminal: Instead of using the mouse, you can also invoke the first menu bar item by pressing (to run the command =E2=80=98menu-bar-open=E2=80= =99). You can then navigate the menus with the arrow keys. To activate a selected menu item, press ; to cancel menu navigation, press =E2=80=98C-g=E2= =80=99 or =E2=80=98 =E2=80=99. The part about `C-g' and `ESC ESC ESC' is wrong, for Windows. And if `C-g' is Emacs only and `menu-bar-open' passes the behavior off to a toolkit, then perhaps `C-g' is also incorrect for other toolkits/window managers? > > 5. Overall, it looks a bit like someone wrote `menu-bar-open', > > `x-menu-bar-open', and `w32-menu-bar-open', and it was decided to > > replace `tmm-menubar' as the binding of `f10'. But I don't really see > > the advantage, especially considering the lack of good doc. >=20 > The advantage is unified behavior across frame types, at least by > default. The tty-menu-open-use-tmm was added later by popular demand; > initially I didn't imagine someone would want it when true menus are > available. I am not requesting it for myself. (I use La Carte to access menus using the keyboard.) But, as you point out, I was mistaken in thinking that f10 was `tmm-menubar' in the past. I was thinking of M-`. I think that the doc could be improved a bit, but the default behavior is fine by me.