Re: Is Emacs on Aqua crippleware or is it just broken?

Re: Is Emacs on Aqua crippleware or is it just broken?

[BK]

Gilbert Harman <harman@Princeton.EDU> wrote ...

> I couldn't tell whether you are interested in using emacs with MCL, but if
> so, it is relevant that MCL already includes an emacs type editor, so you
> could just use that.

Yes, I know, FRED. However, I am using OpenMCL, which is an open
sourced MCL that doesn't have the integrated environment (plus some
other differences).

> It runs fine in OS X.

According to Digitool's web site, MCL currently only runs in Classic
and V5.0 is only for selected customers cause it's a preview, not an
official release yet.
I have MCL 4.2 and I do not intend to upgrade until V5.0 is
commercially available.

I am actually quite happy with an editor called Alpaca, which is open
source and written in OpenMCL. However, at first I asked the Lispers
for help with getting ILISP to work and they were very helpful. To
return the favour, I promised that I would write a mini-how-to for
setting up Carbon Emacs and ILISP for OSX users. The authors of ILISP
are going to include that in the ILISP user guide.

So, even if I am not going to use Emacs myself in the end, my aim is
to spare other Mac users the effort and get past Emacs as fast as
possible if all they are interested in is exploring a non-commercial
Lisp, such as OpenMCL, or even the trial version of Allegro (60 days,
can be renewed every 60 days by running a script but doesn't make any
executables which is fine for non-commercial use).

At the very least I will have to show

- how to quit
- how to copy and paste
- how to invoke the HyperSpec

and wrt anything that a Mac user might expect (such as drag and drop)
but which may not be there, I should tell readers what they can expect
and if it is only to avoid getting swamped in email by people who ask
"why can't I do ..." ;-)

> So does the current build of
> emacs, but you would need considerable expertise to install it correctly

Tell me about it ;-) It seems to be my fate to somehow manage to find
out and document it such that other clueless Mac users like myself
will be spared from running into the same roadblock.

I can tell you, I have managed to figure out things that would seem to
be a lot more difficult on the outset. For example, I set up a DNS
server for a home or small office LAN environment and wrote a 12 page
how-to guide that was very popular and I got tons of thank-you email
from Mac users many of whom said it was the first time they read
anything about DNS they could actually follow.

You would think that setting up DNS from scratch is a lot more
challenging than getting an editor to work, right?! Well, it's been
quite an experience. Something to tell one's grandchildren about, well
almost :-)


> and
> you do not seem to require the additional resources full emacs provides.

that's correct.

Anyway, thank you for your input and just in case if you have any idea
what could bring me a step further in my quest, please post again.

rgds
bk

Re: Is Emacs on Aqua crippleware or is it just broken?

[Rainer Joswig]

bk_usenet@yahoo.co.uk (BK) wrote in message news:<39d9c156.0305071747.35c7365e@posting.google.com>...

> According to Digitool's web site, MCL currently only runs in Classic
> and V5.0 is only for selected customers cause it's a preview, not an
> official release yet.

Why don't you just do the basic research and go to the Digitool
web site and read it? It says on the front page:

"The beta version of MacOSX native MCL (MCL 5.0) is available for purchase."

Means, you (and everbody else) can buy the beta version and you
(and everybody else) would get the beta version. Yes, the beta
version runs under Mac OS X. Native. Yes, lots of people have it.

MCL5

[BK]

joswig@corporate-world.lisp.de (Rainer Joswig) wrote ...
> bk_usenet@yahoo.co.uk (BK) wrote in message news:<39d9c156.0305071747.35c7365e@posting.google.com>...
> 
> > According to Digitool's web site, MCL currently only runs in Classic
> > and V5.0 is only for selected customers cause it's a preview, not an
> > official release yet.
> 
> Why don't you just do the basic research and go to the Digitool
> web site and read it? It says on the front page:
> 
> "The beta version of MacOSX native MCL (MCL 5.0) is available for purchase."
> 
> Means, you (and everbody else) can buy the beta version and you
> (and everybody else) would get the beta version. Yes, the beta
> version runs under Mac OS X. Native. Yes, lots of people have it.

OK, I mixed up the preview for selected customers bit, which was LispWorks:

http://www.lispworks.com/press_releases/press5.html


According to Digitool's website as of May 8, 2003, MCL 5 should be *available now*

http://www.digitool.com/purchase.html says:

MCL-5  MCL 5.0 (shipping January 2003)  $750.00
MCL-5B  MCL 5.0 beta (includes final release above)  $495.00

There is also a history of almost three years of "OSX version available soon".

Taking all this into account, why would I not wait until the thing *actually* ships?

thanks anyway
rgds
bk

Re: MCL5

[Rainer Joswig]

bk_usenet@yahoo.co.uk (BK) wrote in message news:<39d9c156.0305080602.7c47d8b5@posting.google.com>...
> joswig@corporate-world.lisp.de (Rainer Joswig) wrote ...
> > bk_usenet@yahoo.co.uk (BK) wrote in message news:<39d9c156.0305071747.35c7365e@posting.google.com>...
> > 
> > > According to Digitool's web site, MCL currently only runs in Classic
> > > and V5.0 is only for selected customers cause it's a preview, not an
> > > official release yet.
> > 
> > Why don't you just do the basic research and go to the Digitool
> > web site and read it? It says on the front page:
> > 
> > "The beta version of MacOSX native MCL (MCL 5.0) is available for purchase."
> > 
> > Means, you (and everbody else) can buy the beta version and you
> > (and everybody else) would get the beta version. Yes, the beta
> > version runs under Mac OS X. Native. Yes, lots of people have it.
> 
> OK, I mixed up the preview for selected customers bit, which was LispWorks:
> 
> http://www.lispworks.com/press_releases/press5.html
> 
> 
> According to Digitool's website as of May 8, 2003, MCL 5 should be *available now*
> 
> http://www.digitool.com/purchase.html says:
> 
> MCL-5  MCL 5.0 (shipping January 2003)  $750.00
> MCL-5B  MCL 5.0 beta (includes final release above)  $495.00
> 
> There is also a history of almost three years of "OSX version available soon".

The beta is available now. A final MCL is not yet available. A new
date has not been communicated.
 
> Taking all this into account, why would I not wait until the thing *actually* ships?

It is cheaper to get the beta now and later the shipping version. Right?

A lot of people who have Lisp-based code written for earlier versions
of MCL are already porting this code to the new Carbon-based MCL 5,
using the beta version of MCL 5.

Re: MCL5

[BK]

joswig@corporate-world.lisp.de (Rainer Joswig) wrote ...

> > ... why would I not wait until the thing *actually* ships?
> 
> It is cheaper to get the beta now and later the shipping version. Right?

Well, I don't mind paying a little more for the certainty that it
actually ships when it ships ;-) I can't recall ever having paid for
beta software that was actually called beta software. I waited with
OSX until it was a commercial release as well (yes, I know many people
say that it was still de-facto beta until 10.1 or 10.2 depending on
opinion).

 
> A lot of people who have Lisp-based code written for earlier versions
> of MCL are already porting this code to the new Carbon-based MCL 5,
> using the beta version of MCL 5.

Certainly for those people it makes perfect sense. No doubt about it.
However, I don't have any such requirements.

thanks
rgds
bk