From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#25106: 24.5; easy-menu doc strings Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 11:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <<45826813-d92b-4769-8ba1-a09c51349b3d@default>> <<87r26bittq.fsf@mouse.gnus.org>> <<7acd55b6-689a-45bb-917b-0b7cff901c28@default>> <> <<90eacb4e-822b-4af6-addb-e7d22b68310b@default>> <<835znmks9v.fsf@gnu.org>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="256582"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 25106@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 28 20:05:51 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnYM-0014dI-M0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 20:05:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46238 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnYL-0007iX-Lu for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:05:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56428) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnXb-0006uA-EA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:05:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnXa-0007zd-7H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:05:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:38287) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnXa-0007z0-1w for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:05:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnXZ-0000Ki-Sk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:05:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 18:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25106 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 25106-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25106.15643370751237 (code B ref 25106); Sun, 28 Jul 2019 18:05:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 25106) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2019 18:04:35 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47108 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnX8-0000Js-NA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:04:35 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:39778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hrnX7-0000JU-Gv for 25106@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 14:04:34 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6SI4RwS155218; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 18:04:27 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=UN9CMKucMebYj2L9h9N2rQ8MmCPrtiK27fG89b3iK8w=; b=VSbZyTm0BVztBugs7s8h79OpuMBC1sO/2Xi12zQr56TGSxqz1qtCS5c9CNJNw05UYLMS 1/BqhpkW7FLFrDBrD4qVbxnt1wedJxbjifTKXivxBIDwGzTExwlC1hIaPooICjZ2T1xB DBbRbcOJyQBWhLCNOQgyq4OahKGPnYvezVx5sOhcLvbRgBrpOs3/4RtCsmhTDNA8RowK nZPrckLwMiCtNFOF/1mYuDMcpLmrwFmst1OUQ0/cCY32mW71X0Jeb1wajjiDTHtLJvE7 CQDBMJUfC7Lt8CMBLlBQn/f5KwPCuU+Cb9Gv22nkI7THnCNVgPsed0BOHbcQLzvjO59J zg== Original-Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u0f8qksuh-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 28 Jul 2019 18:04:27 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x6SI2wTc131928; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 18:04:27 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2u0bqt5fpb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 28 Jul 2019 18:04:26 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x6SI4Ptf019888; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 18:04:25 GMT In-Reply-To: <<835znmks9v.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9332 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907280226 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9332 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1907280226 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:163986 Archived-At: > > 1. Doc string of `easy-mmode-defmap' says it defines > > a constant whose value has the form of the return > > value of `easy-mmode-define-keymap'. >=20 > No, it says that the constant's value is the _result_ of > easy-mmode-define-keymap. Correct. Which implies that its form is the same. The question raised by the report is how to know what form the returned keymap has. > It says nothing about the form of the keymap. Exactly. That's the problem reported. It invites a reader, in effect, to go check the doc of `easy-mmode-define-keymap'. See if that describes the form of the return value. Going there, you find that there's no description of it (beyond it being a keymap). Your recourse is to go to the code, even though easy-menu returns a specific form of keymap, which its doc could just as well specify. If `easy-mmode-define-keymap' specified the form of the keymap it returns then there would be no difficulty. It doesn't. That's what this request is about: help users by describing the particular form of the keymap. > So there's no mystery to solve here. Mystery, no. Suggested doc improvement, yes. > Please always assume that your arguments were > considered in good faith, and the decision, if > you don't like it, was not meant to disregard > your views in any way, No, of course not. No one said anything about that. I'm sure Lars acted in good faith - never questioned that. > it just disagreed with you. Disagreement about whether the problem should be addressed is normal - a judgment call. People judge things differently. Nothing wrong with that. It's a fact that the form of the keymap returned isn't given in the doc string. The enhancement request suggests that it would help users if it were. I certainly understand that someone can decide that a particular enhancement need not or should not be made. I replied to Lars's request to point out the doc string(s) in question. He looked for that and didn't find it. If that was the reason for closing (as he stated) then pointing out the doc strings (as requested) is appropriate, as is requesting that (given this more specific information) the problem be fixed. There could be other reasons to close the request. I replied to the only reason given so far, saying where the doc difficulty is. Please consider adding the form of the returned keymap to the doc string. Just a request. As for revisiting a closed report: maybe take a look at #25195, which was also followed up on after being closed as wont-fix. The subsequent discussion apparently caused Lars to change his mind. And no, nothing in that discussion put in question Lars's good faith. And yes, we're all appreciative of the work Lars has been doing, revisiting old bug reports. I'm particularly grateful that many of the problems I reported are now getting fixed. Lars is moving quickly and carefully through many, many bug reports, trying his best to quickly decide their fate. I don't think any of us has baked-in, closed opinions - we're all open to new information or new arguments pro & con. This is a process.