From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jim Porter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:04:50 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev> <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org> <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev> <83r0sh8i1q.fsf@gnu.org> <35638c9d-e13f-fad8-5f95-ea03d65d4aa2@gmail.com> <87a5z3izst.fsf@web.de> <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5128"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 19 20:05:27 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCBK-00019z-To for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:05:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCAw-0004u4-86; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:05:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCAt-0004th-Ve for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:05:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1035.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCAs-0004cL-8F; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:04:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1035.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2478485fd76so10213a91.2; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:04:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681927493; x=1684519493; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/28Hv2YoYg42EeK+xiF4tCYOILbS+bsCtgMfHTBCJyU=; b=B1VimNg+vVJ+sBTBLaQQQmlTF62M5mEpFgsV1Q4nh5mxCTRhCcl/Em7yvbJZKBAP1o mdSyPk5E/gQ15s0oKpJbM8a+g3o9BMHvNVqz6uDdHzPBk7DKVCne31ISH2s9MMRKDL3z 3FvmMFDSqmWiRti4Jd+e52Lqh3DJLmFAzWMlFXDr4KzYb/z3WWTwpNZsaa9404K3xoDw uVudLu6SU2BbUcL+A51LiXoKzeRStoZ9lm6N1XfzAkw9uMCoY/m9Vgf3oyCtBUJdybEU ATTnXpqi+Jk3ELRN+Hx4iylpqtLQAP81Ee5zyJ/UX3Kctxn2jURo1J/IM7evFn1mofdG rmBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681927493; x=1684519493; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/28Hv2YoYg42EeK+xiF4tCYOILbS+bsCtgMfHTBCJyU=; b=Ho9AiTH1tbLb/rFT8/exZoFkrrvDlXF0QQtaWZ8ZNJdafftWJS69+Td+Pu3t3h83PR k+d9mBzDssNItBWIraUa19EZ28vD4b7PqRDpMOgHazMD0vWD2PyrF+kUB/wy8Y+CCRxM 5hoUU9D9FryWomfNvZS2AkIpnTysjT1nAb/vRFP83otE11zufJcvyAuOEgkgFW2eQaR1 RSRedigeTTj4NGi3FX+KRGn9U3vhhg9TZIYgDLetHk9FnCU2Ip8FL20r7850zRgIac0F /NADHUkseXyVnkB89JgFI+G9dCDnZscKRrqlEY0PIZmXfcJzfugDvm0EwDRbmWMC1w4G mw+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9dHe10ZNDVejehkfckJ2sH049efYqmiApIBQRaB+4PQKZ9b7Hsa pXW0982M4+xW0+59m0fdSnZS14FG0zFKhA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350YSiF0pxvRvPIZW7+Zhwuh9wzbnxehmCTph7hWl3QfyEfRyckvtK/j68U2/3km1losIhvrgbg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:b78e:b0:247:4c28:311f with SMTP id m14-20020a17090ab78e00b002474c28311fmr3459142pjr.34.1681927492911; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id lk6-20020a17090b33c600b0024702e5dda0sm1678698pjb.39.2023.04.19.11.04.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1035; envelope-from=jporterbugs@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1035.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305449 Archived-At: On 4/19/2023 10:03 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Specifically, users of Emacs 28 and older, who had Eglot installed, > and expect Eglot to be automatically updated upon Emacs startup > whenever a new Eglot version is available, will now have their > expectations broken after they upgrade to Emacs 29, because Eglot is > now a built-in package, and package.el won't by default upgrade a > built-in package. I have some thoughts on this but before I go further, I want to be sure I understand the problem. How is the user upgrading their packages in this scenario? I installed Eglot 1.14 on Emacs 28 and then tried loading up Emacs 29. Then I did the following: 1. Add gnu-devel to 'package-archives' (this way, I can be sure there's a newer Eglot to upgrade to in one of the archives) 2. M-x list-packages 3. U ;; package-menu-mark-upgrades 4. x ;; package-menu-execute When Emacs tells me what packages it will upgrade, Eglot is in the list. However, ERC (which is in ELPA, but I didn't install via package.el) is *not* in the list. Isn't this the behavior we want?[1] [1] For now, ignore the part where this upgrade changes where we get Eglot from GNU ELPA to GNU-devel ELPA. (I think this should be fixed, but I don't think it poses an immediate issue for Eglot's problem, since Emacs doesn't enable GNU-devel by default.)