From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23926: defcustom with STANDARD= gives confusing results Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 14:59:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <<>> <<<83vb0fgu83.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<443f2e44-5167-48e7-abc6-cce1e243461e@default>> <<8337nihpdw.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1468076430 2628 80.91.229.3 (9 Jul 2016 15:00:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 15:00:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 23926@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 09 17:00:17 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bLtjs-0007AR-Hs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 17:00:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51445 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLtjr-0005ND-Oy for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:00:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57190) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLtjl-0005LQ-5Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:00:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLtjf-0004wP-Fe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:00:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:60170) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLtjf-0004vh-CH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:00:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bLtje-0005An-US for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:00:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 15:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23926 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23926-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23926.146807635719808 (code B ref 23926); Sat, 09 Jul 2016 15:00:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2016 14:59:17 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44274 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bLtiv-00059Q-Kk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 10:59:17 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:18124) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bLtiu-00059C-FX for 23926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 10:59:16 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u69ExAtr010596 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Jul 2016 14:59:10 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u69ExAJ7022000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Jul 2016 14:59:10 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u69Ex8u4002858; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 14:59:09 GMT In-Reply-To: <<8337nihpdw.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:120695 Archived-At: > > 2. Is it not a bug that Customize tells you that the value > > was changed outside Customize? In what way was it > > changed outside Customize? In fact, it was not even > > changed. >=20 > It was changed,=20 The option value was changed? I don't think so. The standard value (labeled "original" in `C-h v') is changed each time the sexp is evaluated. But the option value is not. The option value was not changed at all in the recipe Noam gave. It was and remained exactly what it was from the defcustom. The mere fact of entering Customize did not change its value, and nothing else changed its value. It still has the original value from when the defcustom was evaluated. > because each time the sexp is evaluated it yields a > different value. See above. > "Outside Customize" means not by the user who is typing values > into the Custom buffer and saves those values by using the > "set state" menu. Correct. And nothing changed the option value at all. Not that way or any other way. It remains as it was from defcustom. > > How about the reverse: Why do you think this is not a bug? >=20 > See above. See above. Do you still think this is not a bug?