From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [dalias@aerifal.cx: ansi-term \e[J causes spurious newline [revised report]] Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:44:36 +0900 Organization: NEC Electronics Message-ID: References: <87zm66o80a.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200703211840.l2LIem6A013375@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <87ps724dbd.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200703212016.l2LKGo67015610@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200703220322.l2M3M8Ed022513@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1174535109 32405 80.91.229.12 (22 Mar 2007 03:45:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 03:45:09 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 22 04:45:03 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HUEEZ-0001Dp-3G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:45:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HUEGJ-0008FX-2b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:46:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HUEGF-0008Ev-BL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:46:47 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HUEGC-0008Ei-UR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:46:46 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HUEGC-0008Ef-QL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:46:44 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HUEER-00024j-Uc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:44:56 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HUEEJ-0005ri-4P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:44:47 +0100 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:44:47 +0100 Original-Received: from miles.bader by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2007 04:44:47 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 36 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: fencepost.gnu.org System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu Blat: Foop Cancel-Lock: sha1:HU5XSnDpEWdrAHx19rtfHnJr0/I= X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:68267 Archived-At: Dan Nicolaescu writes: > > Is it the escape sequence "\e[J" actually undefined on a real terminal > > in that case, or is merely the more abstract "ed" terminfo capability > > which is undefined in that case? > > I am not sure what the question is... :-( > In any case I am not aware of any documentation for the different > escape sequences other than terminfo (or the terminal emulator > actual code, if that counts as documentation). I mean that you described the preconditions of the terminfo "ed" capability, but that's not what term.el seems to be modelled after (to degree that it's modelled after anything :-). Terminfo is an abstraction, and so tries to restrict the assumptions people make about capabilities to some practical common denominator of the many types of terminals it supports -- however many programs do not use terminfo; for instance they may directly use ANSI escape sequences instead. term.el says: ;;; It emulates (most of the features of) a VT100/ANSI-style terminal. Elsewhere it mentions xterm in passing, and that's probably the most relevant modern example of a "VT100/ANSI-style terminal". I'm not saying it should exactly emulate any existing terminal -- that's probably impractical -- but neither should it restrict its emulation to only those sequences terminfo might produce. For term.el to be practical, we should care whether term.el follows common xterm and VT100/ansi practice, even in cases where the behavior in question would never be produced by terminfo. -Miles -- My books focus on timeless truths. -- Donald Knuth