From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk version getting closer Date: 13 Nov 2002 13:40:18 +0900 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1037201241 21640 80.91.224.249 (13 Nov 2002 15:27:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:27:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , jan.h.d@swipnet.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18BzCK-00045N-00 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:12:56 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18BzOH-00066k-00 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:25:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bpgb-0005fE-00; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:03:33 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18BpKe-0002XT-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:40:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18BpKY-0002WI-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:40:49 -0500 Original-Received: from tyo202.gate.nec.co.jp ([210.143.35.52]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BpKW-0002Ve-00; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:40:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mailgate4.nec.co.jp ([10.7.69.195]) by TYO202.gate.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W01080315) with ESMTP id gAD4eRl02165; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:40:27 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mailsv.nec.co.jp (mailgate51.nec.co.jp [10.7.69.196]) by mailgate4.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) with ESMTP id gAD4eQD17530; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:40:26 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp ([10.30.114.133]) by mailsv.nec.co.jp (8.11.6/3.7W-MAILSV-NEC) with ESMTP id gAD4eOd18002; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:40:25 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (mcspd15 [10.30.114.174]) by mcsss2.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (8.10.2+Sun/3.7Wlsi_mx_6.0) with ESMTP id gAD4eJB24583; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:40:19 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp (Postfix, from userid 31295) id 77B053814; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:40:18 +0900 (JST) Original-To: Karl Eichwalder System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu Blat: Foop In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 37 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:9359 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:9359 Karl Eichwalder writes: > > Where the menu item's text is self-explanatory, there usually is no > > tooltip that pops up. In other words, tooltips for menu items > > should be defined only where they are really needed. > > That's even worth ;) If you want to sell a product consistency is an > important issue. The ideal goal should be: all or nothing. If > tooltips appear only now and then, the user might think there is > something broken. Tooltips in Gnome (at least on my system!) are often `consistent' to the point of stupidity: in many cases a tooltip is popped up with _exactly_ the same text as the menu item or for icons, the same text repeated _twice_ in the tooltip (presumably one line is the `label' and the other is the `description')! This not only seems odd, it seems broken. Clearly in many cases it's really the fault of the application or the user that added an icon or whatever without a good description -- but that's the real world, such things exist. Perhaps it would be better to could pop up a tooltip that says `This tooltip intentionally left blank'... The way I use tooltips is to pause over something and wait to see if something pops up; if nothing does, I just think `oh there's no tooltip for that.' Maybe I'm wierd, but since I gained this habit by using non-emacs programs (emacs being a relative newcomer to using tooltips), I think there must be something to it. [Indeed, it would seem that Gnome's insistence on `consistency' in this case may actually be damaging, by actually _causing_ people to think that `everything must have a tooltip'] -Miles -- `...the Soviet Union was sliding in to an economic collapse so comprehensive that in the end its factories produced not goods but bads: finished products less valuable than the raw materials they were made from.' [The Economist]