From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Making Emacs more newbie friendly Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:43:07 +0000 Organization: muc.de e.V. -- private internet access Message-ID: References: <874qf8d3cy.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111356916 29332 80.91.229.2 (20 Mar 2005 22:15:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 20 23:15:16 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DD8hV-0004BX-1i for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 23:15:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DD8yT-0000kT-BH for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:32:45 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.uchicago.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.csl-gmbh.net!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.muc.de!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 31 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: acm.muc.de Original-X-Trace: marvin.muc.de 1111356549 85981 193.149.49.134 (20 Mar 2005 22:09:09 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: news-admin@muc.de Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Mar 2005 22:09:09 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.5-20010409 ("One More Nightmare") (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.35 (i686)) Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:129504 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:25056 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:25056 PT wrote on Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:01:19 +0100: > On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 18:16:24 +0100, David Kastrup wrote: >> Emacs has not shown itself to accommodate systematic corporate >> involvement well. It will as far as I can see always be dependent on >> dedicated individuals instead of corporate support, simply because you >> can't make a business plan involving Emacs development and timelines. > I see. In that case there really is no obvious benefit of devoting > development resources to make Emacs more user friendly. > BTW, it seems in the corporate world Eclipse will fill this space > instead of Emacs. It's a self described "universal tool platform - an > open extensible IDE for anything and nothing in particular". When a > newbie tells me he gave up on Emacs because is to alien I usually tell > them to use Eclipse instead. And they usually are happy, because it's > nice, shiny and point-and-clicky. :) Like David, I've neither seen nor used Eclipse. You describe it as "point-and-clicky". I cannot use point-and-clicky interfaces when I'm dealing with text - the mouse movements on the screen distract me too much from the text I'm dealing with. Thus I need Emacs's facility of being fully usable without the mouse. Is Eclipse also fully usable without a mouse? -- Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany) Email: aacm@muuc.dee; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter (like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").