From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 18:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: References: <0ded5ecd-f5f6-4a8e-9d19-f61bf0401022@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <86hcad9ar4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <0bb45e96-f9f3-4451-a457-004bb5930c76@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217040051 21996 80.91.229.12 (26 Jul 2008 02:40:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:40:51 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 26 04:41:39 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMZiu-00019L-O4 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 04:41:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57152 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMZi0-0008Pv-U5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 22:40:36 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!r35g2000prm.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 111 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.6.97.120 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1217036519 22018 127.0.0.1 (26 Jul 2008 01:41:59 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 01:41:59 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: r35g2000prm.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.6.97.120; posting-account=bRPKjQoAAACxZsR8_VPXCX27T2YcsyMA User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10_4_11; en) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.22, gzip(gfe), gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:160596 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55943 Archived-At: On Jul 25, 5:33 pm, "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" wrote: > Why should the documentation call Meta for Alt when it is not Alt? In > for example the patched version of Emacs+EmacsW32 it is possible to use > left and/or right windows keys as Meta. I guess a lot of people do that. Standard and familiarity is important. Going by tech details, each app will argue about the superiority of their terminology to no ends. For example, Linux's KDE and Gnome largely adated all Windows's terms. Left mouse button, right mouse button, instead of some 1st button or 2nd button (which emacs still use). Desktop, instad of various =E2=80=9CWin= dow Managers=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CFile managers=E2=80=9D (or Directory Editor i= n older days). Keyboard shortcut, as apposed to keybinding. File alias or File shortcut, as opposed to Hard Link, Soft Link. Folders, as opposed to Directory. File names, as opposed to File ID (older unix term)... etc. Bottom line is that words and terms change with time, in computing as well in science. Most tech geekers likes to associate =E2=80=9Cmodern=E2=80= =9D with =E2=80=9CMicrosoft=E2=80=9D which they hate. But if we want to be hardcore,= lots of emacs's terms is invented by itself and not logical. The following is a excerpt from the Wikipedia article on Common User Access=E2=86=97: ------------------- CUA was a detailed specification and set strict rules about how applications should look and function. Its aim was in part to bring about harmony between MS-DOS applications, which until then had implemented totally different user interfaces. Examples: * In WordPerfect, the command to open a file was [F7], [3]. * In Lotus 1-2-3, a file was opened with [/] (to open the menus), [W] (for Workspace), [R] (for Retrieve). * In Microsoft Word, a file was opened with [Esc] (to open the menus), [T] (for Transfer), [L] (for Load). * In WordStar, it was [Ctrl]+[K]+[O]. * In Emacs, a file was opened with [Ctrl]+[x] followed by [Ctrl]+[f] (for find-file). Some programs used [Esc] to cancel an action, some used it to complete one; WordPerfect used it to repeat a character. Some programs used [End] to go to the end of a line, some used it to complete filling in a form. [F1] was often help but in WordPerfect that was [F3]. [Ins] sometimes toggled between overtype and inserting characters, but some programs used it for =E2=80=9Cpaste=E2=80=9D. Thus, every program had to be learned individually and its complete user interface memorized. It was a sign of expertise to have learned the UIs of dozens of applications, since a novice user facing a new program would find their existing knowledge of a similar application absolutely no use whatsoever. ------------------- Who is to say, that the DOS era (~1990) of Microsoft Word's system of shortcuts is not consistent and superior and more extensible than the modern Ctrl+=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA ones? Heck, it even used the words =E2=80= =9CTransfer=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CLoad=E2=80=9D, which describes the technical detail of what's happ= ening more correctly than the popular =E2=80=9COpen=E2=80=9D. ------------------- The purpose of a standard, or standard terminology and notation, is so that everyone understands it without having to spend time on app xyz. There are always drawbacks with one particular way, but overall standards do good for all. > The advantage is that you can use the menus the same way as you are used > to in other w32 programs. > > I think it is much better to clearly tell new users the distinction. > They will need to know it at least on w32 from the beginning, cause > otherwise they will get confused by that the menus does not work (if > they use Alt as Meta). Emacs features remains they are. Any user can easily learn and use all the features as before. ----------------------- Even technically, Meta is just wrong. There is no Meta key except Sun Microsystem's keyboard with perhaps 0.0001% market share. Emacs did not adapt the changing landscape of computing industry, and emacs suffers greatly for it today, with dwindling user base (possibly just 1% of professional programers) while all sort of less power IDEs and editors sprang up even today (e.g. in recent years TextMate ($63 USD)) with large number of enthuisastic users who basically has no idea what power or flexiblity emacs has. PS previous post on =E2=80=9CEmacs's M-=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA Notation vs Al= t+=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA Notation=E2=80=9D is now archived here: http://xahlee.org/emacs/modernization_meta_key.html Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84