From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15101: 24.3.50; debugger-eval-expression broken Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1376586324 4806 80.91.229.3 (15 Aug 2013 17:05:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:05:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Helmut Eller , 15101@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 15 19:05:23 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VA0zC-0006HR-S7 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 19:05:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54577 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VA0zC-0001Mb-Eo for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:05:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60061) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VA0z1-0001JT-Ip for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:05:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VA0ys-0002X8-LG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:05:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:38268) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VA0ys-0002Ws-Hh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:05:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VA0ys-0002ed-0c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:05:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15101 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15101-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15101.137658625310137 (code B ref 15101); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:05:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15101) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Aug 2013 17:04:13 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60815 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VA0y4-0002dR-Nn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:04:13 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1050.oracle.com ([156.151.31.82]:35441) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VA0y0-0002dB-3d for 15101@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:04:10 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) by userp1050.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7FH408T017041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <15101@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:04:02 GMT Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7FH3rZk005920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:04:00 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7FH3lre026114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:03:48 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7FH3lIT026101; Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:03:47 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:77391 Archived-At: > > In your judgment, can both the old `e' behavior and the new `e' > > behavior be useful, at least for dynamically bound variables? >=20 > `e' while on the top line of the buffer gives you the old behavior > (except it handles lexical vars if there were any when `debug' was > called). Yes, you said that. This should be documented, of course, especially since previously the cursor position was irrelevant for `e'. So there is at least a doc bug here, it seems. You say that "this refinement can be useful for dynamically bound variables" and is "indispensable" for lexically bound vars. OK. So just what is the usefulness? What is a use case for `e' with point not on the first line? That too should be pointed out in the doc - not obvious to me, at least. And if it is NOT useful for someone to use `e' anywhere other than the first line then why not have `e' act as if it were at bob? Or if it is sometimes, but not typically, useful to use `e' other than on the first line, how about a message letting an unaware user know that the cursor is not on the first line and hence evaluation will not be in the "context that called `debug'"? That seems the least we could do about this gotcha. In sum, my concerns here are: 1. Is the non-first-line behavior of `e' really useful? If not, maybe have the code work around it (always act as if on the first line). 2. Document the behavior (completely). Describe the different use cases. 3. Consider a message informing the user that, because point is not on the first line, evaluation will not be done in the original context (and tell the user just what evaluation context will be used). AFAICT, there is no mention of this in the doc yet. I see that "lexical" is mentioned only briefly in (elisp) `Edebug Eval' - and nothing about this. And it is not mentioned at all in the manual sections about the standard, non-edebug debugger (i.e., command `debug').