From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Riley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changing the default for `send-mail-function' Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:14:02 +0200 Organization: aich tea tea pea dicky riley dot net Message-ID: References: <87vcvmtc7z.fsf@mid.gehheimdienst.de> <87liwgg3vv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87y60elo83.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4E131B9C.4020806@swipnet.se> <87liwc1k08.fsf@gmail.com> <34F70A20-5300-4F2C-A271-C928F67F27EF@mit.edu> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310022961 10944 80.91.229.12 (7 Jul 2011 07:16:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 07:16:01 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 07 09:15:57 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QeioR-0003Wm-85 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:15:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52456 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QeioP-0005pd-Cl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 03:15:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:46707) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qeilb-0005AY-0g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 03:12:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QeilZ-0004GU-7p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 03:12:54 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:51296) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QeilY-0004GP-NK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 03:12:53 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QeilW-0002KZ-CY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:12:50 +0200 Original-Received: from 85.183.18.158 ([85.183.18.158]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:12:50 +0200 Original-Received: from rileyrg by 85.183.18.158 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:12:50 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 29 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 85.183.18.158 Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:0I1NtS3AmO+0t0cque3QlrrQ/MY= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:141721 Archived-At: Tim Cross writes: > Changing default settings is something that needs to be supported by > evidence and not just opinion. So far, there does not seem to be any > evidence to justify the change, only opinions. I have not observed an > increase in bugs relating to mail configuration or requests for help > to configure mail or frustration regarding the current default. > Perhaps it is too difficult to acquire the necessary evidence? >From old config files on the 'net or changes to the wiki, I have received many Qs about mail setup : the wiki, for example, is a hotch potch of conflicting approaches - many "almost correct". That in itself is evidence enough of confusion. In the #emacs irc channel there is frequently a "rolling of eyes" type response whenever someone asks emacs mail questions... not fair necessarily but there you go. Gnus is, in fairness, not for the feinthearted as it is. In short there are many many many people who have issues with mail configs in emacs. Many of the people having the issues are new to emacs and soon give up and move on - they certainly are not competent enough or , and more importantly, confident enough to raise bugs. So I feel There is an issue and it does need tackling. The reluctance to change legacy defaults is meant well I am sure, but people who have used emacs long term and know it backwards can soon figure out how to change their setup to the "old way" : *new users* should not be handed difficult to use defaults because of the reluctance of a tiny minority.