From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 00:37:24 +0300 Message-ID: References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <83mu68cbbb.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7wghxdz.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <87eerkgey1.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <112aecd7-8165-6cae-ef69-08d14d843841@yandex.ru> <5d158a63-7173-424c-9d9f-ce7856f1eae7@default> <4bb36686-34e7-4ac8-898c-74e254902349@default> <29f65907-affb-481e-82f3-62522a766f69@default> <83sgfybn22.fsf@gnu.org> <4d146384-12e4-5763-106e-be6bf52c6520@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="58489"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: Jean-Christophe Helary , Richard Stallman , =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=c3=b6hler?= , Emacs developers , Karl Fogel , homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, Sergey Organov , Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 17 23:40:59 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaR1n-000F6o-33 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 23:40:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34050 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaR1m-0004Fs-3E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 17:40:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59296) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQyS-0002wz-8f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 17:37:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::430]:39178) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaQyR-0000pK-45; Sun, 17 May 2020 17:37:31 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id l18so9560361wrn.6; Sun, 17 May 2020 14:37:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Pfv49brblPy3a4BPzOu0KcmCfwfo407Gw6xr1o1d5Ys=; b=oWQCt8fwAkeck9BrwN5ht6Ktx5vOs+zOxP9DLsr86CJQkca+prgkSud+Vg7aJ6hKEu uRJutEQmbdlQ0ht6hxQ08KKw6MYSIGG2ygNZp4MfgeUC5xJUMS0l8lv8FjXqA1XrPw0R F0piKQTx6UMDQSnM/PUo420JbLKhR5XoZFlqt8xxqoHH0kyOTpcZ77ek0Yb+JuQ2qd9l WuNxIu7XKEiY63kRIP/3mKPu0yWy3//0IFIuOEY/dGYUuXBP7QKB7xe15IaRXNVjsZvM xrodsxqYgmnSSlkP8k10FKpSW+zfsOKNzIUXx5Rr7XvVvV4lG6FmUZNDg6reBxM5nN62 S7iw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Pfv49brblPy3a4BPzOu0KcmCfwfo407Gw6xr1o1d5Ys=; b=XlopiafALh9W05S5C12ef7pvBn2utFO8a2JmninIlcju1xbD6x0T5Yzry/3n4/9ki9 mSxl4DokWXZ7fVnudiLBRQq34fvDTmNiFuqZSnh2UmNwNYr0FLNIhTeJZva7dkjdcxzG /VB8XyPmOyf+JQHW+reunRySHQkOETZuDOAgabRlNAnhgFEv2ugCS2e6HTB7tNlpgOtq mi19EFQIpszAVa5PUpWI18oWqoUZdU+h56NliPDWKkpBU7PB1NfQusWtnd+wHrxTm7kF pWc2GRg6CtobLnrg7esHvTRFczwYF2ABKEKQm5F0aHx2VJzvKXsUj/UirhGOgjeP2im5 +Q+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531pHaEeMpFJe2B2oc63qh91+upjR/Mg2+v3tmtdNG29/SC4JOsA ilntJ1ixflEAGi5K6JKHaiY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwZwrNMNLdig+658r+j3A3lLP/k2Cv6EyolnG3Jb88Klg6KNHQR5530ejIfQL/dOVQraW4MMg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e50d:: with SMTP id j13mr15363064wrm.383.1589751448468; Sun, 17 May 2020 14:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c140sm8709751wmd.18.2020.05.17.14.37.25 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 17 May 2020 14:37:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::430; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x430.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250671 Archived-At: On 18.05.2020 00:17, Stefan Monnier wrote: > I wonder how it works out in practice: I like the idea of the minibuffer > being "near point" rather than at the bottom of my screen, but at the > same time I don't like the minibuffer hiding text "near point". It doesn't actually follows point, at least in this solution. The position is more or less fixed, albeit, if the position is in the center of the frame, it would be closer to point on average. The idea is to rather "capture the gaze". > Another issue is that it only applies to actual minibuffer use, so it > doesn't affect Isearch nor echo-area messages, but for me a significant > part of the problem of having the minibuffer "all the way down" is that > I don't see echo messages either (i.e. it's not just the minibuffer > per-se but all uses of the mini-window). I think that conflation of the minibuffer and the echo area is one of oldest problems in Emacs. That's not to say that we can't do anything similar for the echo area. Someone should experiment with that as well: for instance, they could be displayed like desktop notifications. Stacked, on the right side of the screen (top or bottom). I don't have particular experience with that, "solving" the minibuffer seems more urgent. Another idea: show the messages at the bottom of the minibuffer pop-up, on a separate line, perhaps with a different background, when the minibuffer is active. Otherwise, continue showing them at the bottom of the frame.