From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Nathan Colinet Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs popular again with a video Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 22:57:09 +0200 Message-ID: References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <70bb51fd-447d-928c-4d69-1c9673a44471@online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="38849"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 To: =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=c3=b6hler?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 02:42:45 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXwWq-000A0F-FO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 02:42:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41688 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXwWp-0000Kg-Ex for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 20:42:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60116) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXt0b-00054O-BN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:57:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x341.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::341]:38505) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXt0a-0006ns-D6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 16:57:13 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x341.google.com with SMTP id g12so16908162wmh.3 for ; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:57:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=8mmXntH6Fs5ELe/+AhSBlKvSDyfY3a7U5R7+OouEbus=; b=X4qKlhDZ2QbArHUR9GZk7ABU2DOAZITcXhxDxgU24iWAumD4qhfhQNLfGkIvkatcde zY5PE54dUQ83tJ6HhNisX4MfOzuKVAGpPTzQeYPEler2Z85MnJF0lmvVctT5Qk1C5ybH f3PsXlxFELZiTWlg3vaBcQWo5sHbiU36w8WpJfbvi4qy1FpO1LFMQIC9AbsWXgob7c2a neFOgj5QJlF2LP3g6PNrLwtT1VXwarDOAuQwuNwuR4lAfS4SGjVJ66mHi6TsoWmHs5O0 h4E2GLxTxIfE7KRZBxbUlPYsn3ZDf08TG+aU9tEvKdiK9gPxlqNp6it4Qly7BpPpUeOp TuRQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=8mmXntH6Fs5ELe/+AhSBlKvSDyfY3a7U5R7+OouEbus=; b=Lt2vmj3zM+0uI/YSpFfwu+BtUcHclKclWLZmj7WkPnpcrqzG3JYJK3rq1wG5LOxUvX GyS9QK0Ozd1Y0z6LuoAoe+H+2GRJkRCI3vZhNQT9CKmIvMJH6kIqrM+Fh9tjte05G3Z+ gzgaJIKHwCOKVer4xL3yfforvbG9NUTDNJfJVps+6ba7R95TGUqeJ9AVOSCi63EpjPdI Tbww71D9qIjnS9+5SRYVGpEB+NKRzy3zGRCgVqRa572kH9McQMogR+iahQrBnDCmRu2B comrNub3HQEP22rOWSuxt1fvnsBzgsPIa0V3joIQEVP54DeIgASFnWGHWlfx2KBcqb5F cBXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYuMYNJOMNCQYrrLsc0LP23P+FjKakun+hlsHlNJUk8ZWvPqLK7 VRlLcSBaF0cJqeN2XELJP29JqE9s4NI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypI0qplJ6GXRPcKYP2ugy4DiQ8SGUW8NfyHYfUSekL1uQV6uOIS/s52ARwicXC4CcAIs2fhCHQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:cc06:: with SMTP id h6mr25551508wmb.166.1589144230338; Sun, 10 May 2020 13:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.22] (ip-80-236-218-17.dsl.scarlet.be. [80.236.218.17]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t7sm11696094wrq.39.2020.05.10.13.57.09 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 May 2020 13:57:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <70bb51fd-447d-928c-4d69-1c9673a44471@online.de> Content-Language: fr Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::341; envelope-from=colinetnathan98@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x341.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 May 2020 20:41:57 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249727 Archived-At: Hi, I agree that's too advanced for a beginner user. On 2020-05-09 09:50, Andreas Röhler wrote: > > > Am 08.05.20 um 10:26 schrieb Nathan Colinet: >> Hello, >> >> I read on the mailing list that you're looking for a way to make >> Emacs popular again. I thought I could share my idea. >> >> I started using emacs a year ago and when I started everything was >> really confusing, what is a frame, what is a buffer, how to install >> packages, what are major and minor modes, etc.. I wanted to give up >> but then I saw a 1 hour talk about Emacs that shows how powerful it >> is. Then I was hooked. Unfortunately the sound was no good at all and >> it was way too long. I think it could be really benefic for emacs to >> have a 5-10 minutes video that would present Emacs not as an old >> obscure porgram but as an amazing fresh looking tool that drastically >> improves efficiency. I think people nowadays need an out-of-the-box >> experience, that's why promoting doom-emacs or spacemacs might be >> better than the default Emacs. >> >> I think if the video is well realised it could really be a huge win. >> >> Stay safe and well, >> >> Nathan Colinet >> >> >> > > Hi, > > thanks bringing that up. Agree such a video might be helpful. The > reasons however, why Emacs is a kind of niche nowadays are multiple > and complex. Leaving apart all items Emacs itself can't change, there > is something which can be done IMO: making Emacs ready for a beginner > in programming resp. for non-programmers. Make Emacs appear mannerly > as just an editor first. Which also means: at the beginning leave > apart all complex stuff useful for advanced programmers only. > > For instance at "Introduction" fairly everything in first paragraphs > IMHO may be dropped resp. should be moved at later sections. Copy > stuff below for the convenience of the reader here. > > All the day enjoying Emacs, > Andreas > > Copy: > > Introduction > ************ > > You are reading about GNU Emacs, the GNU incarnation of the advanced, > self-documenting, customizable, extensible editor Emacs.  (The ‘G’ in > GNU (GNU’s Not Unix) is not silent.) > >    We call Emacs “advanced” because it can do much more than simple > insertion and deletion of text.  It can control subprocesses, indent > programs automatically, show multiple files at once, edit remote files > like they were local files, and more.  Emacs editing commands operate in > terms of characters, words, lines, sentences, paragraphs, and pages, as > well as expressions and comments in various programming languages. > >    “Self-documenting” means that at any time you can use special > commands, known as “help commands”, to find out what your options are, > or to find out what any command does, or to find all the commands that > pertain to a given topic.  *Note Help::. > >    “Customizable” means that you can easily alter the behavior of Emacs > commands in simple ways.  For instance, if you use a programming > language in which comments start with ‘<**’ and end with ‘**>’, you can > tell the Emacs comment manipulation commands to use those strings (*note > Comments::).  To take another example, you can rebind the basic cursor > motion commands (up, down, left and right) to any keys on the keyboard > that you find comfortable.  *Note Customization::. >