From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Bozhidar Batsov" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Allowing rolling release packages on ELPA Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:07:14 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87o7u4p2t4.fsf@posteo.net> <874jvvm9hn.fsf@protesilaos.com> <7c2bdbbd-bd23-cda9-50d4-23c4702215df@secure.kjonigsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=af85ca110a5443538e025468631b9333 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="733"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.7.0-alpha0-1047-g9e4af4ada4-fm-20221005.001-g9e4af4ad To: "Emacs Devel" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 24 10:51:42 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1omtBJ-000APi-LY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 10:51:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omsUs-00044U-GC; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 04:07:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omsUm-00043x-ER for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 04:07:40 -0400 Original-Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omsUk-000397-0w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 04:07:39 -0400 Original-Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FBB5C0086 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 04:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from imap43 ([10.202.2.93]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 24 Oct 2022 04:07:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=batsov.dev; h=cc :content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1666598855; x=1666685255; bh=HDUAY2aiiM QML67kDBZw4BSVDa8hdzz1wKjuO3dXNwM=; b=Bxdu8eOQqkSQEKFbuKh56RTL59 8tPpOkCTs9unk/KCccCDKFwkprEExVhlDDRDdjbpec/2N44YS4pREP6dbpjZEZYx YTonKD+gYdWtI14CQfdvxLxp0jht1OKSs0XvVaQeEylOx8C/FqX38lgzCAbtCNRK M7uTZK5+ruzUq87MxraTTmIooRQwyN51QOSLNtvLQU5AtlWyq0q0KUlsSPdX7xuS y7gxK7O/cfja4lRKbCdEbMWLYpoyJl5SRNc7TEABQgLDrfCCwtLIDfHYAHcY2wPa jQAX1QBIEZmGfA91ODfe6d45V5w9m1vNnPeWWp6tvET0avoh2Uk6/pBHrxXQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm3; t=1666598855; x=1666685255; bh=HDUAY2aiiMQML67kDBZw4BSVDa8h dzz1wKjuO3dXNwM=; b=Kzx13uvbvQvn9U5rkrxo+0cA+e8XBbZSlE6tpcuxuvRl zK9O4d8qAJoSNVcBsvNYUzgRlmXCMU7i3E64s5Ebe5YtRHz6daXIYnx5Uj+KoPxO vSnk4VkT4ys0xv9rfIrbrzy9SPXjBhDLHo7uxPtLHl7mzIPSU0vCgaTiWgWNXcuw Vo0mXRNNQ6vaHLU7AaXfy8TYcaCd2vYNWVhnvbZyCNCAKkOyxhOucY9ZycpL6ci3 RUaJ17oPL9pcgLIFyOOsswXhZTbw2JqykME7TWZKO5XsMSCSvYA3o6cHAzbpJUKZ fBtF7Ojqz9qdESv7/xOUJSvmp5yOIFIpkTPJcDDDXQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrgedtfedgudeftdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsegrtderreerreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfueho iihhihgurghruceurghtshhovhdfuceosghoiihhihgurghrsegsrghtshhovhdruggvvh eqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepfeffhfehkeefkeekudetfffghfevgfdtvdelfeeghefh feduleehtdelheefgeeknecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrg hilhhfrhhomhepsghoiihhihgurghrsegsrghtshhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i025946a9:Fastmail Original-Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 32B3D2D4040A; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 04:07:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface In-Reply-To: <7c2bdbbd-bd23-cda9-50d4-23c4702215df@secure.kjonigsen.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.26; envelope-from=bozhidar@batsov.dev; helo=out2-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:298353 Archived-At: --af85ca110a5443538e025468631b9333 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well the argument about MELPA is a bit misplaced, as there's also MELPA = Stable. I mean snapshots are not a bad idea if you know what you're doin= g (I'm using MELPA myself), but most packages still have "stable" releas= es. I can't think of a single package that I use that doesn't get tagged= releases from time to time.=20 I was also under the impression that there are already ELPA and NonGNU d= evel repositories that behave like MELPA, so I'm not sure what would we = be solving then.=20 > Every patch is probably a feature or a bug-fix to some aspect of the p= ackage. As a user, I want those as soon as they are > available. Often that's not the case - patches can be improvements to docs, build i= nfrastructure, small steps towards some new features, etc.=20 > Not having to version things manually is a god-send. It saves a tiny bit of time for the maintainers and makes life a bit har= der for the end users IMO. Anyways, perspective on this subject will alw= ays vary. For me updating a couple of version numbers in a package is an= insignificant amount of work (and it's work that's trivial to automate)= .=20 On Mon, Oct 24, 2022, at 9:45 AM, Jostein Kj=C3=B8nigsen wrote: > On 24.10.2022 08:14, Bozhidar Batsov wrote: >> The patch seems fine to me, but I'm a bit skeptical about the whole r= olling releases idea in general > This is the default operation for MELPA, which arguably has more popul= ar packages than ELPA. >=20 > It works fine. >=20 >> should something like a change to the docs really result in a new rel= ease? > Yes. Unconditionally. >=20 > Every patch is probably a feature or a bug-fix to some aspect of the p= ackage. As a user, I want those as soon as they are available. >=20 >> How hard it is for people to actually update version timestamps thems= elves or to just stick to the *-devel repos if they don't want to cut re= leases? > As a package-developer, I may release patches weekly, but I update mai= n versions maybe once every second year, if/when someone bothers me abou= t it. >=20 > Not having to version things manually is a god-send. >=20 >>=20 >> How much was the demand for something like this in general? I can't t= hink of any major Emacs package that does rolling releases. > All of them does, if they're on MELPA. That's what MELPA does. >=20 > -- >=20 > Jostein >=20 --af85ca110a5443538e025468631b9333 Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well the a= rgument about MELPA is a bit misplaced, as there's also MELPA Stable. I = mean snapshots are not a bad idea if you know what you're doing (I'm usi= ng MELPA myself), but most packages still have "stable" releases. I can'= t think of a single package that I use that doesn't get tagged releases = from time to time.

I was also under the im= pression that there are already ELPA and NonGNU devel repositories that = behave like MELPA, so I'm not sure what would we be solving then.

Every patch is probabl= y a feature or a bug-fix to some aspect of the package. As a user, I wan= t those as soon as they are
available.

Often that's not the case - patches can be improv= ements to docs, build infrastructure, small steps towards some new featu= res, etc.

Not ha= ving to version things manually is a god-send.

It saves a tiny bit of time for the maintainers and mak= es life a bit harder for the end users IMO. Anyways, perspective on this= subject will always vary. For me updating a couple of version numbers i= n a package is an insignificant amount of work (and it's work that's tri= vial to automate).

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022, a= t 9:45 AM, Jostein Kj=C3=B8nigsen wrote:
On 24.10.2022= 08:14, Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
The patch seems fine to = me, but I'm a bit skeptical about the whole rolling releases idea in general

= This is the default operation for MELPA, which arguably has more popular packages than ELPA.

It works fine.

should something like a change to the docs really re= sult in a new release?

Yes. Unconditionally.

Every patch is probably a feature or a bug-fix to some aspect of the package. As a user, I want those as soon as they are available.

How hard it is for peo= ple to actually update version timestamps themselves or to just stick to the *-devel repos if they don't want to cut releases?

As a p= ackage-developer, I may release patches weekly, but I update main versions maybe once every second year, if/when someone bothers me about it.

Not having to version things manual= ly is a god-send.


How mu= ch was the demand for something like this in general? I can't think of any major Emacs package that does rolling releases.

All of them does, if they're = on MELPA. That's what MELPA does.

--

Jostein

=

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