From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving packages out of core to ELPA Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 14:19:05 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87h6i6y2ch.fsf@yahoo.com> <86msrys0qj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27231"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , JD Smith Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 18 13:19:52 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rbg98-0006qm-W5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 13:19:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbg8Y-0002UA-Ib; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 07:19:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbg8V-0002SA-SS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 07:19:12 -0500 Original-Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rbg8T-0002av-H7; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 07:19:11 -0500 Original-Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E82A05C0080; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 07:19:07 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 18 Feb 2024 07:19:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1708258747; x=1708345147; bh=kdi1fG9dBr2ACzyuaFMWiOQn2jrXuEVC+o5JD8V4mD0=; b= M6fwoYnnttW1CU1ALcLFG2jBaQG03yAB5dbUKJavm3g4A3Sju0BvzVv/cqIaBqcx XqSzGu85/6/pUUzENOGJUaaaA3yKQeTENle+Q3a1jmvme7wgeUf+8jCN5s8EJbr6 3KhGGsWw+rYTQfMuXwjKvDx+sPQcqLeSt4pAkRXE8XxoRpZDZ0CzOF+iLoSk+I4i fc8T0HDJYzmBYfo2gPIMQ2VYeaVAovn79sPcFkZLNsbXKGogzcDc55l8wF1hGBxf Oj9ekPS9f7myDA1j2E2WgZ63ZMKKNq7x8VHu6jCompAtf6QaUk67Km7Pq7CrTqvP rr+PQCVQ99qxRPx6KLXrEQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1708258747; x= 1708345147; bh=kdi1fG9dBr2ACzyuaFMWiOQn2jrXuEVC+o5JD8V4mD0=; b=T zbCMfBsVeIxxNy/lpBdcUlo6rXYDrgidC9VnUy9mg5ezqoJzszqDHSojZIS4QDop ZohoRMn824eetus3ZmQVfyX22mdGACy4S54EEpN2XGZNVcjSogvfCNXCgWKPW+jF uQ39ABFDWGj6IRxgmofZu6ydNPpvhih3zLscSFJcNgeLtxRJkHlZqlzIO6bo596I HFT1DAiHujQkVcJIpllAWGVE0d/oqv/5FWjvNltnxEkDNumZ75sd4usLa6qIJ8YL rgRnnRVVirqgt5hLVS75YqosoyURhhH68occ8HRGEseo5hFa1+7e2xQYNdAbTArR nRBJmERBQw+T1tJvvRf1g== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrvdeigdegtdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthekredttddvjeenucfhrhhomhepffhmihht rhihucfiuhhtohhvuceoughmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghvqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpeegleefteekgffhvdfhtdegveevveetteegteevgeettdehhfdukeetheffueek keenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegumh hithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 18 Feb 2024 07:19:06 -0500 (EST) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <86msrys0qj.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.29; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=out5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:316302 Archived-At: On 18/02/2024 09:14, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>>> It deserves support in Emacs. Just not, IMO, in core. >>> Why not? Why does_anything_, to speak nothing of a package already in >>> core, not "deserve" support in core, while deserving support in ELPA? >> Because in ELPA, users must proactively opt-in to the use of the package. For such users — those who have actively sought it out — in stark contrast to the vast majority of Emacs users, the benefits dramatically outweigh the costs. > The costs are minuscule, so it isn't worth considering them in such > cases. Those who say that the costs of maintenance is tiny, seem to have missed the simple statement that the built-in version has diverged from its upstream 7 years ago. The maintenance is clearly not being done.