From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opaque objects and Emacs documentation Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 13:40:54 +0300 Message-ID: References: <20200712184908.13140.5739@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20200712184909.BBC61209B1@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <7bf4d6ef-c0ec-43dc-ad5d-f6e81422ad90@yandex.ru> <83zh84m5ws.fsf@gnu.org> <3dd1c224-69b2-40af-5b2e-43a310253632@yandex.ru> <83tuybmtxs.fsf@gnu.org> <859f594b-1343-6d26-e1ac-7157c44eb56c@yandex.ru> <83a6zyk4tt.fsf@gnu.org> <20200717081346.GA31885@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7409"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 To: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 17 12:41:33 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jwNo3-0001lO-M5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:41:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54154 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jwNo2-00083z-N2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 06:41:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40526) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jwNnX-0007eA-K0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 06:40:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32a]:55624) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jwNnV-0001W8-S0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 06:40:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id g75so14135242wme.5 for ; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 03:40:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pt+DRxiO16NqB19Hyj8DqDMKRotAueV41gTTd6kPll8=; b=PkKcgZ327YTSNSw/tuZu4fneBC+x+AZ6Ozeqbntcnimx9S4dPuDr8/RCsmQ/f4zEZQ Ki7gaQVdwQvPcpThlmeQ3/riyKQhs9PhECbj9S3iF488mBOxo7qZlxA3jh/pzB7HpZDY Bb2WBpUf0elUoKeiFVOv/y6RvMKHo2YAAZW/qdoMCTJJt1oOvbTpc+DLR1eGUibFu26i Ep3hBFIPhZYwQM1jiZgXBkb5Ny9lPRe2GVhBQBFnpBnstJp/g0pMdr2BCWiRtUvGN/Jl g0KvKp6gx8wWUkAKFMpKXabJNQXScyKJaFd0vWGcLpDs8aNj3jYmG11i5A6J/bKRyfu8 iB7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=pt+DRxiO16NqB19Hyj8DqDMKRotAueV41gTTd6kPll8=; b=RU6l+LxZDra8Z4rVmkzkRYPlEQMszSZcMioU11xRv3685fxMLCbeLosZ/9Jqg6d0nq haloHBjR5XXHaKtJyV7GK654yJZNV00hgf70Y7DSge+nHjlajyuSOvpW9Z5ASVqSyOmW wypEUSUNA/G0UEJ6Y6yCcU0aBr3ythEu3btyDGKhsha7qScMn6oY9eLUCgnpoBTwGI9v Or067hPRfVqKYQHyaGV1Vdav70U8cIRaBBqk7BtJ5X0SCUhMU9tHS5Z96cYQzcQZXUcw aexu86CNKp2VQFo+zh+RzPruaz6KUyqPLlNwNKCebPi2EjnBkNxre3cXCk4WQQmoOdoI eIVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5319LGS+lY03DHRdFqAW9Hb2/Zw+EQSc1Us3NKRSw3TJONBFQWXu zCK80FC4YyTLS9NAoctv68LNyZiw X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyuIAD0j4dZxIvnv3aNozQ/lCQyIwjVQ/GojJTu1bCEFN7VVSk+iaklwXs99Zp84p9QDZlMkg== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:4b08:: with SMTP id y8mr8496001wma.89.1594982456059; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 03:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id y189sm14780157wmd.27.2020.07.17.03.40.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 17 Jul 2020 03:40:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200717081346.GA31885@tuxteam.de> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32a; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32a.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:253006 Archived-At: On 17.07.2020 11:13, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > I already weighted in, but in case that wasn't clear: while I think > that "layering" and "abstraction" is a useful structuring technique > when building up complex systems, the interfaces themselves have to > be subject to negotiation, as everything else. How does this apply to this particular discussion? If you have a better suggestions for the interfaces, I'm all ears. > And Dmitry -- as much respect as I have for your technical skills, > I think you're pushing it a bit too hard. I'm pushing because it's not the first time this kind of thing happened, and that has been negatively affecting my ability to contribute. I have to draw a line somewhere. Compromises aren't working, Eli simply skips past them. And because that move: "please explain -- I write 3 screenfuls -- no, you didn't explain anything", is infuriating.