Re: Icicles

Re: Icicles

[prad]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> Because someone new to Icicles is not yet familiar with the features
> and how they fit together, it can be tempting to want to customize
> things immediately, to shoot for the keys you are used to, etc.  That
> is like a VI user switching to Emacs and wanting to use a VI emulator
> to support the habit.
>
> You can do that - nothing wrong with it, but if you do you will not
> necessarily learn what Icicles or Emacs really has to offer, in terms
> of synergy: how one part can help another part do things better.
>
thank you drew for the detailed explanations and ideas. i feel doubly
fortunate that i get to use something as fine as icicles and have the
author as coach. it can't get any better!

for me, i think you have made a significant point through your
explanations. i likely try to fiddle with too much too soon and should
make more of an effort to understand the capabilities and intent of the
software's defaults so as to get my bearings right first.

i acknowledge this can be difficult to do when there is such a wealth of
items available through something like emacs. while trying to learn
gnus, i wanted to learn how to use icicles better and that led me
somehow to org. so i've joined all the relevant groups and spend more
time reading the posts (of people wanting to implement things and others
coming up with neat solutions that i don't always understand) than
working on learning the software. self-discipline is definitely what is
required!

imho, open source is the next best thing to sliced bread (thx to people
like you who generously create things we all can use) ... and since i
don't eat bread, it's pretty well number one on my list!

-- 
in friendship,
prad

RE: Icicles

[Drew Adams]

> while trying to learn gnus, i wanted to learn how to use
> icicles better and that led me somehow to org.

In such a situation, it might be a good idea to use Icicles only as an aid to
learning gnus and org, for now.  So you might want to turn off the following for
the time being, while you learn gnus and org:

(setq icicle-top-level-key-bindings           nil
      icicle-redefine-standard-commands-flag  nil)

More variables means more confusion.  Tiny bites swallowed finishes the slice of
bread first (learned that in an elementary-school contest - lost).

> imho, open source is the next best thing to sliced bread

Free and open software is much better than sliced bread - or at least better
than some sliced bread. ;-)

Icicles

[Gottfried]

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Hi Drew,

I installed Icicles in Emacs and Emacs put it in the
home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa directory

but when I want to run it, it said:

did not find file/directory
(in German language: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden, icicles-mac)

message:
Leaving directory ‘/home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26’
\f
Compiling file /home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles.el 
at Sun Jan 29 13:31:14 2023
Entering directory ‘/home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/’
icicles.el:1695:16: Error: Cannot open load file: Datei oder Verzeichnis 
nicht gefunden, icicles-mac


How can I solve the problem?


-- 
Kind regards

Gottfried


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icicles

[Gottfried]

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Hi Drew,
thanks very much for your exact description.
I have Emacs 28.2

> A guess is that you just didn't add the directory
> where you have the source files to your value of
> variable `load-path'.  Emacs can't know where to
> find libraries if you don't tell it.

and as an Emacs newbie I didn't know that I have to add it to my 
load-path. (I thought it will do it by itself).
I am learning.

So when I started emacs it loads icicles
but it gives me some missing dependencies
and I installed all of them through your given wiki page.

Now Icicles is running, every time I start emacs, but those given 
messages I don't know what to do with them


Loading /home/gfp/.config/emacs/custom.el (source)...done
Loading /home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mac.el 
(source)...done
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/hexrgb.el: Warning: ‘case’ is an 
obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-opt.el: Warning: ‘incf’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-incf’ instead. [2 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-opt.el: Warning: ‘callf’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-callf’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-opt.el: Warning: ‘incf’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-incf’ instead. [2 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-opt.el: Warning: ‘callf’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-callf’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-opt.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead. [3 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-opt.el: Warning: ‘callf’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-callf’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-opt.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead. [2 times]
Loading /home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mac.el 
(source)...done
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-fn.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead. [5 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-fn.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-fn.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead. [5 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-fn.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead. [2 times]
Loading /home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mac.el 
(source)...done
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mcmd.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead. [4 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mcmd.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mcmd.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead. [8 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mcmd.el: Warning: ‘flet’ is 
an obsolete macro (as of 24.3); use either ‘cl-flet’ or ‘cl-letf’.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mcmd.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead. [6 times]
Loading /home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mac.el 
(source)...done
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd1.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd1.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd1.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd1.el: Warning: ‘pushnew’ 
is an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-pushnew’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd1.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead. [2 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd1.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead. [2 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd1.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead.
Loading /home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mac.el 
(source)...done
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd2.el: Warning: ‘pushnew’ 
is an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-pushnew’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd2.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead. [4 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd2.el: Warning: ‘incf’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-incf’ instead. [3 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd2.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead. [2 times]
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-cmd2.el: Warning: ‘loop’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-loop’ instead. [2 times]
Loading /home/gfp/.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mac.el 
(source)...done
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mode.el: Warning: ‘pushnew’ 
is an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-pushnew’ instead.
.config/emacs/elpa/icicles-2022.1.26/icicles-mode.el: Warning: ‘case’ is 
an obsolete alias (as of 27.1); use ‘cl-case’ instead. [2 times]
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Package yow is deprecated
Package cl is deprecated
Beginning of buffer [2 times]

-- 
Kind regards

Gottfried



You don't say exactly what you did.  Or what Emacs
version you have.

A guess is that you just didn't add the directory
where you have the source files to your value of
variable `load-path'.  Emacs can't know where to
find libraries if you don't tell it.

[ Caveat: I don't have or use Emacs 29, which includes
   native compilation, so I can't help you there -
   except to say that you can, I expect, still follow
   the regular directions (see below).  If it for some
   reason needs the macros file (`icicles-mac.el')
   loaded first, then do that. ]
___

Normally all you need to do is add the directory
where you have the Icicles files to the value of
your `load-path' variable:

(add-to-list 'load-path
              "/wherever/you/have/Icicles/files/")

Then (require 'icicles) or `M-x load-library icicles'.

This is described here:

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles#ObtainingAndInstalling
___

Of course, it's better to byte-compile the files,
if you want to do more than just give Icicles a
quick try.

You can byte-compile Icicles after you've loaded
it (source files).

Or you can do it anytime.  But you must always
have loaded `icicles-mac.el', to be able to
byte-compile any of the source files (including
`icicles-mac.el' itself).

This is described here:

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Libraries#byte-compile

E.g., just Dired the directory with the files,
mark them, and `B' to byte-compile them.
(After having loaded `icicles-mac.el'.)

You can see other reminders of the need to first
load `icicles-mac.el' in the source files.  E.g.:

;;  ******************
;;  NOTE: Whenever you update Icicles (i.e., download
;;  new versions of Icicles source files), I recommend
;;  that you do the following:
;;
;;      1. Delete all existing byte-compiled Icicles
;;         files (icicles*.elc).
;;      2. Load Icicles (`load-library' or `require').
;;      3. Byte-compile the source files.
;;
;;  In particular, always load `icicles-mac.el' (not
;;  `icicles-mac.elc') before you byte-compile new
;;  versions of the files, in case there have been any
;;  changes to Lisp macros (in `icicles-mac.el').
;;  ******************

(This isn't special to Icicles; it's just standard
Lisp practice.)
___

FYI: This is the code in `icicles.el' that loads
the other files when you load it:

;;; Load other Icicles files

(eval-when-compile
  (or (condition-case nil
          ;; Use load-library to ensure latest .elc.
          (load-library "icicles-mac")
        (error nil))
      ;; Require, so can load separately if not on `load-path'.
      (require 'icicles-mac)))

(require 'icicles-face)
(require 'icicles-opt)  ;; Requires face
(require 'icicles-var)  ;; Requires opt
(require 'icicles-fn)   ;; Requires mac, opt, var
(require 'icicles-mcmd) ;; Requires mac, opt, var, fn
(require 'icicles-cmd1) ;; Requires mac, opt, var, fn, mcmd
(require 'icicles-cmd2) ;; Requires mac, opt, var, fn, mcmd, cmd1
(require 'icicles-mode) ;; Requires mac, face, opt, cmd1, cmd2
___

HTH.  If you have some follow-up, I think you
can drop the ccing of help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org.

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RE: [External] : icicles

[Drew Adams]

The byte-compiler warnings are benign - ignore them.
They're due to the library supporting also old Emacs
releases (including releases prior to the ability to
inhibit warnings).

(Please drop help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org from CC from now
on, if you reply with additional, specific Icicles
feedback.)