From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16491: 24.3.50; ?REGRESSION: `defadvice' doc removed from Elisp manual Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:32:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390170808 19474 80.91.229.3 (19 Jan 2014 22:33:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 22:33:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 16491-done@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier , Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 19 23:33:31 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W50vn-000344-F2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 23:33:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47821 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W50vn-0008Dk-2J for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:33:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39181) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W50vb-0008CQ-6o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:33:23 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W50vP-00085N-0p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:33:15 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:43361) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W50vO-00085B-Te for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:33:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W50vO-0001M1-Kk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:33:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 22:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16491 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16491-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D16491.13901707775189 (code D ref 16491); Sun, 19 Jan 2014 22:33:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16491-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2014 22:32:57 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57380 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W50vI-0001La-5F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:32:56 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:36516) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W50vF-0001LQ-RQ for 16491-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:32:54 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s0JMWp2r001249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Jan 2014 22:32:52 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s0JMWoMU009106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Jan 2014 22:32:50 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s0JMWn8G011864; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 22:32:49 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:83743 Archived-At: > >> What's not fine is to simply remove all of the doc about > >> the traditional `defadvice' advice system. >=20 > Totally agreed. Which is why I kept the 60KB of docs in the > Commentary section of advice.el. That is not the user doc. It is good that you at least saved that information somewhere. Such a concession! 60KB! But it is not sufficient to just stuff that information into a Lisp-file Commentary somewhere. At the very least, it should be available as an Info manual distributed with Emacs. The fact that you felt it was worth mentioning how many KB this doc weighs betrays your attitude about it, and perhaps about user doc in general. But you have already expressed yourself on that, stating in the past that users don't need _any_ doc, and the code needs no comments - the code itself suffices and is the real doc. When will you bury all of the doc in Lisp comments? Why stop now with `defadvice'? This is an anti-user attitude that is quite inappropriate, especially for someone charged with leading Emacs development. Too bad. At least I know where to find the `defadvice' doc now - thank you for that tip. But poor Emacs. Oh, BTW, did you give a _reason_ for carving this out of the doc and moving it to a Lisp comment? Did you propose that possibility for emacs-devel discussion and present technical or user-level arguments supporting it? Did I miss those reasons somehow? No? I didn't think so.