Emacs Customization - newbie's question

Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Asene]

1) How can I change font size of Emacs and XEmacs?

2) XEmacs colors seems to be ugly to me. How can I change it? I think I 
have to customize a lot when changing colors because I have to change 
the highlight syntax's color of some languages? So, can I download an 
option file from internet and where can I download it if available?

I'm a newbie to Emacs. I tried to read the Emacs manual but it looks so 
complicated to me. So asking here is a better way for me, I think.

Thank you for helping me.

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Daniel R. Anderson]

<snip>
> I'm a newbie to Emacs. I tried to read the Emacs manual but it looks so 
> complicated to me. So asking here is a better way for me, I think.
</snip>

Check out O'reilly's /Learning GNU Emacs/.  And, no, don't be a dunce
and pay $30 + tax for it at Barnes and Noble -- go to www.alibris.com
and search for it -- you'll pay about $7 (including shipping) for it. 
It'll cost less then the reams of paper which take up the emacs manual. 
And it's perfect for noobs.

BTW, the 2nd edition covers emacs 19, not 21.  The only discrepency I
came across was when I typed M-x kill-buffer I was told by emacs in the
minibuffer that "That command now works with C-x k".

-Dan

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[amh]

I would recommend against purchasing this book.  For one, as already
mentioned, its outdated.  Two, all of the info in it can be found online
and believe me, there is not alot to this book.  The "Writing GNU Emacs
Extensions" isnt worth it either.

http://rgrjr.dyndns.org/emacs/emacs_cheat.html

Thats a good place to start, check out the emacs wiki too.  The Oreilly
books are a waste of money and paper IMO


> <snip>
>> I'm a newbie to Emacs. I tried to read the Emacs manual but it looks
>> so  complicated to me. So asking here is a better way for me, I think.
> </snip>
>
> Check out O'reilly's /Learning GNU Emacs/.  And, no, don't be a dunce
> and pay $30 + tax for it at Barnes and Noble -- go to www.alibris.com
> and search for it -- you'll pay about $7 (including shipping) for it.
> It'll cost less then the reams of paper which take up the emacs manual.
> And it's perfect for noobs.
>
> BTW, the 2nd edition covers emacs 19, not 21.  The only discrepency I
> came across was when I typed M-x kill-buffer I was told by emacs in the
> minibuffer that "That command now works with C-x k".
>
> -Dan
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Daniel R. Anderson]

<snip>
> I would recommend against purchasing this book.  For one, as already
> mentioned, its outdated.  Two, all of the info in it can be found online
> and believe me, there is not alot to this book.  The "Writing GNU Emacs
> Extensions" isnt worth it either.
> 
> http://rgrjr.dyndns.org/emacs/emacs_cheat.html
> 
> Thats a good place to start, check out the emacs wiki too.  The Oreilly
> books are a waste of money and paper IMO
> 
</snip>

1)  Every book ever written about technology is outdated before it gets
off the press due to the fact that the 6+ months between writing and
publication the tech. world changes.  So long as the information works
it's not a problem.  As I said, I only found one difference between the
key bindings -- and even that wasn't much.

2)  Some people like books compared to online documentation.  For one
thing those of us who do not have a latte, twiddler, and cyborg
headset[0] often find the time we are away from computers can be used to
learn about them.  (Taking the train into NYC is a good example).   

3)  It is by no means meant to be an all inclusive reference.  It's
meant to provide an overview with detailed explanations for noobs.  If
you're technically sophisticated and you´ve gotten used to online
documentation it is probably too slow for you.  But, if $7 helps you to
learn better then the online documentation, and that $7 buys an increase
in productivity worth (much) more then $7 to you, it certainly makes
sense to spend it.

0.  A latte is a computer available at thinkgeek.com a little larger
then an oversized CD case.  A twiddler is a one handed keyboard with
integrated mouse (www.handykey.com) and there are lcd goggles available
that allow you to make the i/o interface complete.  They cost upwards of
a couple thousand dollars, although, if I were Donald Trump I wouldn't
hesitate to buy one.

-Dan

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Adam]

On Monday, Mar 31, 2003, at 06:35 Atlantic/Reykjavik, Daniel R. 
Anderson wrote:
> 1)  Every book ever written about technology is outdated before it gets
> off the press

True but this book is fairly outdated as it uses Emacs 19 which is two 
major versions behind the curve.

> 2)  Some people like books compared to online documentation.

Some people like to learn about programs at their computers.

> 3)  It is by no means meant to be an all inclusive reference.  It's
> meant to provide an overview with detailed explanations for noobs.

As long as he doesnt mind using his computer to learn about Emacs, 
there are better sources than the Oreilly book.</imho>

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Daniel R. Anderson]

<snip>
> > 1)  Every book ever written about technology is outdated before it gets
> > off the press
> 
> True but this book is fairly outdated as it uses Emacs 19 which is two 
> major versions behind the curve.
</snip>

Have you seen the book?  What is it that would go outdated?  Are you
trying to tell me C-x C-f doesn't open files anymore?  Or that when I
press C-v I don't just down the buffer a screen?  Run over the
changelogs.  You´ll see that there is not a whole lot that has changed
for the beginning user.

Grab a book on C written 10 years ago and you won´t see radical syntax
changes.  Programs might be optimized for hardware which today can be
gotten for free, but you could probably type in examples (so long as
they use standard libraries) into a modern compiler and they would work.

If needs be the old version 19 can be gotten off the ´net and whoever
was inquiring about help learning emacs can upgrade when he or she is
ready.

-Dan

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Adam]

> Have you seen the book?

I own it.

> What is it that would go outdated?  Are you
> trying to tell me C-x C-f doesn't open files anymore?  Or that when I
> press C-v I don't just down the buffer a screen?

He can learn the basics online with cheat sheets.  He didnt like the 
manual but a cheat sheet *should* do the trick.  He doesnt have to 
spend money and waste time reading a book that shows him howto C-x 
C-f......
>
> Grab a book on C written 10 years ago and you won´t see radical syntax
> changes.

If I had a choice right now between modern/current sources and a 10 
year old book I would choose the former.

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Daniel R. Anderson]

I just went to the Emacs FAQ at
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-faq.text (Newbies take note --
it's a good reference.) 

All changes between version 19 and 21 are either superficial (regarding
appearence) or not going to affect noobs.  That is, of course, unless
noobs write LISP.

-Dan

4.3 What is different about Emacs 20?
=====================================

   To find out what has changed in recent versions, type `C-h n' (`M-x
view-emacs-news').  The oldest changes are at the bottom of the file,
so you might want to read it starting there, rather than at the top.

   The differences between Emacs versions 18 and 19 was rather dramatic;
the introduction of frames, faces, and colors on windowing systems was
obvious to even the most casual user.

   There are differences between Emacs versions 19 and 20 as well, but
many are more subtle or harder to find.  Among the changes are the
inclusion of MULE code for languages that use non-Latin characters and
for mixing several languages in the same document; the "Customize"
facility for modifying variables without having to use Lisp; and
automatic conversion of files from Macintosh, Microsoft, and Unix
platforms.



   A number of older Lisp packages, such as Gnus, Supercite and the
calendar/diary, have been updated and enhanced to work with Emacs 20,
and are now included with the standard distribution.

4.4 What is different about Emacs 21?
=====================================

   Emacs 21 features a thorough rewrite of the display engine.  The new
display engine supports variable-size fonts, images, and can play sounds
on platforms which support that.  As a result, the visual appearence of
Emacs, when it runs on a windowed display, is much more reminiscent of
modern GUI programs, and includes 3D widgets (used for the mode line and
the scroll bars), a configurable and extensible toolbar, tooltips
(a.k.a. balloon help), and other niceties.

   In addition, Emacs 21 supports faces on text-only terminals.  This
means that you can now have colors when you run Emacs on a GNU/Linux
console and on `xterm' with `emacs -nw'.

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Oliver Scholz]

"Daniel R. Anderson" <dan@mathjunkies.com> writes:

> I just went to the Emacs FAQ at
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-faq.text (Newbies take note --
> it's a good reference.) 

It's also available from within Emacs with `C-h F' (`C-h C-f' in the
CVS version).

> All changes between version 19 and 21 are either superficial (regarding
> appearence) or not going to affect noobs.  That is, of course, unless
> noobs write LISP.

[I don't know what the word "noobs" means, it is not in my Webster's.]

The NEWS file (`C-h n'), which covers user-visible changes since Emacs
20.1, is a rather large file with more than 9.000 lines (more than
11.000 in the CVS version). I doubt that none of the changes
mentioned there affects new users.

However, I have never used Emacs 19 and I don't know the O'Reilly
book, so I believe your judgment that it is a good book.

But: the Emacs manual is excellent and you can have it for free with
`C-h i d m emacs RET' or you can obtain a printed copy from the FSF
from here: <URL: https://agia.fsf.org/>. The latter has the
additional benefit of supporting the FSF.

    Oliver
-- 
11 Germinal an 211 de la Révolution
Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité!

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Tim X]

"Daniel R. Anderson" <dan@mathjunkies.com> writes:

> <snip>
> > > 1)  Every book ever written about technology is outdated before it gets
> > > off the press
> > 
> > True but this book is fairly outdated as it uses Emacs 19 which is two 
> > major versions behind the curve.
> </snip>
> 
> Have you seen the book?  What is it that would go outdated?  Are you
> trying to tell me C-x C-f doesn't open files anymore?  Or that when I
> press C-v I don't just down the buffer a screen?  Run over the
> changelogs.  You´ll see that there is not a whole lot that has changed
> for the beginning user.
> 
> Grab a book on C written 10 years ago and you won´t see radical syntax
> changes.  Programs might be optimized for hardware which today can be
> gotten for free, but you could probably type in examples (so long as
> they use standard libraries) into a modern compiler and they would work.
> 
Sorry, but I don't agree with this. Quite a lot has changed between
emacs 19 and emacs 21. Apart from user visible changes such as the way
font locking has evolved, there has been considerable change in the
internals of emacs which in turn leads to different ways of doing
things. Look at the number of packages which have/are being re-written
to utilize new features or ways of doing things. 

While none of these seem too difficult to anyone who is familiar with
emacs, if you are learning and the book you are learning from is out
of date, your 

    1. likely to get very frustrated when things won't work the way
       they are said to work in the book
    2. learn bad habits or less optimal solutions which may have been
       appropriate in the old version, but are not any longer.

Your analagy with C is IMO poor as well - C is a well defined
programming language which has had only minimal change over the last
30 years. Emacs is a whole working environment which has evolved
significantly over the last few versions - the move from 20 to 21 was
a major move and from memory one which was not achieved without some
hot debate because of the extensions and internal changes it involved.

Tim


-- 
Tim Cross
The e-mail address on this message is FALSE (obviously!). My real e-mail is
to a company in Australia called rapttech and my login is tcross - if you 
really need to send mail, you should be able to work it out!

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Stefan Monnier]

> 2)  Some people like books compared to online documentation.  For one

The Emacs manual can be ordered from the FSF.
It's the most up to date book on Emacs you'll find.


        Stefan


PS: Please do not advertize non-free (in the "free speech" meaning of
    "free") books and software in gnu.* newsgroups.

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Daniel R. Anderson]

I'd like to amend my statement.  Go to Barnes and Noble, see if the book
would be useful to you, and THEN buy it on alibris if you want it.

-Dan

On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 02:20, Asene wrote:
> 1) How can I change font size of Emacs and XEmacs?
> 
> 2) XEmacs colors seems to be ugly to me. How can I change it? I think I 
> have to customize a lot when changing colors because I have to change 
> the highlight syntax's color of some languages? So, can I download an 
> option file from internet and where can I download it if available?
> 
> I'm a newbie to Emacs. I tried to read the Emacs manual but it looks so 
> complicated to me. So asking here is a better way for me, I think.
> 
> Thank you for helping me.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
> Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[kgold]

Rather than discuss books, I'll actually try to answer the question.  0-)
Answers for emacs only.

Asene <linux@networld.com> writes:
> 1) How can I change font size of Emacs and XEmacs?

; frame colors and size

(setq default-frame-alist
      '(
        (width . 80) 
        (height . 60)
        (foreground-color . "antiquewhite1")
        (background-color . "navy")
        (cursor-color . "red")
        (font . "-*-Lucida Console-bold-r-*-*-11-82-*-*-c-*-*-ansi-")
        ))

; font

(set-default-font "-*-Lucida Console-bold-r-*-*-11-82-*-*-c-*-*-ansi-")

> 2) XEmacs colors seems to be ugly to me. How can I change it? I think I 
> have to customize a lot when changing colors because I have to change 
> the highlight syntax's color of some languages? So, can I download an 
> option file from internet and where can I download it if available?

Generally, you set the colors for such things as variables, functions,
comments, keywords, and so on.  Each language will use the same
colors.

Try 
	Edit - Text properties - Display faces 

to get a list and what the colors currently are.

Turning on the coloring can be done once for all modes.

> 
> I'm a newbie to Emacs. I tried to read the Emacs manual but it looks so 
> complicated to me. So asking here is a better way for me, I think.

The people on the news group tend to be helpful, especially if you did
try to RTFM first, and you ask nicely.

-- 
-- 
Ken Goldman   kgold@watson.ibm.com   914-784-7646

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Stefan Monnier]

>>>>> "Asene" == Asene  <linux@networld.com> writes:
> I'm a newbie to Emacs. I tried to read the Emacs manual but it looks so
> complicated to me. So asking here is a better way for me, I think.

Instead of reading the manual or asking here directly for an answer,
the best thing you can do is ask here how to find the answer to
your question in the manual.

You'll then quickly learn to use C-h i, C-h f, M-x apropos
and friends and when those things don't work, you'll have good reason
to complain and we'll know how to improve the documentation.


        Stefan

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[David Combs]

In article <5ld6k7875g.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu>,
Stefan Monnier <monnier+gnu.emacs.help/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> "Asene" == Asene  <linux@networld.com> writes:
>> I'm a newbie to Emacs. I tried to read the Emacs manual but it looks so
>> complicated to me. So asking here is a better way for me, I think.

Yes, a much better way to start out.

Type in this:  Control-H   t (the letter "t").

That will get you into the interactive tutorial, written
by the master himself.

Each thing he teaches, he has you do it yourself,
right then and there.

After finishing that, THEN read the manual.

If you can't afford the manual or even printing
it out, then type in  Control-H  i  ("i", for "info").

Using what you learned from the tutorial, hunt down
for a "* Emacs", and when there, hit "m" followed
by a carriage-return (I believe).

Good luck!

David

Re: Emacs Customization - newbie's question

[Roodwriter]

David Combs wrote:

> In article <5ld6k7875g.fsf@rum.cs.yale.edu>,
> Stefan Monnier <monnier+gnu.emacs.help/news/@flint.cs.yale.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Asene" == Asene  <linux@networld.com> writes:
>>> I'm a newbie to Emacs. I tried to read the Emacs manual but it looks so
>>> complicated to me. So asking here is a better way for me, I think.
> 
> Yes, a much better way to start out.
> 
> Type in this:  Control-H   t (the letter "t").
> 
> That will get you into the interactive tutorial, written
> by the master himself.
> 
> Each thing he teaches, he has you do it yourself,
> right then and there.
> 
> After finishing that, THEN read the manual.
> 
> If you can't afford the manual or even printing
> it out, then type in  Control-H  i  ("i", for "info").
> 
> Using what you learned from the tutorial, hunt down
> for a "* Emacs", and when there, hit "m" followed
> by a carriage-return (I believe).
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> David



I found the book /Learning/ /GNU/ /Emacs/ second edition by Debra Cameron, 
Bill Rosenblatt and Eric Raymond quite helpful. It's an O'Reilly book 
available at bookstores and the web.

The problem is that it's a bit out of date. It's written for version 19.30 
and we're 21.xx now. Still, I found it much easier to understand than the 
help files and organized better--at least for me.

Hope this helps.

--Rod

-- 
Author of "Linux for Non-Geeks--Clear-eyed Answers for Practical Consumers" 
and "Boring Stories from Uncle Rod." Both are available at 
http://www.rodwriterpublishing.com/index.html

To reply by e-mail, take the extra "o" out of my e-mail address. It's to 
confuse spambots, of course.