Feature in org-move-item-down

Feature in org-move-item-down

[Mike Newman]

It appears org-move-item-down treats blank lines as part of the
preceding list item (whereas I use them to separate a list from
subsequent text).

So given

- a test
- b test
- c test

test

with point on line b, M-x org-move-item-down gives
- a test
- c test

- b test
test

Thanks
-- 
Mike

Re: Feature in org-move-item-down

[Carsten Dominik]

On Mar 17, 2007, at 4:15, Mike Newman wrote:

> It appears org-move-item-down treats blank lines as part of the
> preceding list item (whereas I use them to separate a list from
> subsequent text).
>
> So given
>
> - a test
> - b test
> - c test
>
> test
>
> with point on line b, M-x org-move-item-down gives
> - a test
> - c test
>
> - b test
> test


The problem with is this is following.  Suppose I made the item end 
before the
empty line, as you suggest.  Then consider the following case:

- a test

- b test

- c test

If I now move "b" up, I get

- b test
- a test


- c test

I don't think there is a good solution to this problem - if you
know one, I would be interested.

- Carsten

Re: Feature in org-move-item-down

[Mike Newman]

The manual (section 2.8) says

"Indentation also determines the end of a list item.  It ends before the next line that is indented like the bullet/number, or less."

I think that a blank line has 0 indentation, therefore (by this logic)
it should end a list item.  Clearly a blank line cannot start a list
item, so it must end a list.

I think the question is whether list items can contain blank lines. 
This may be established practice, but it was not what I was expecting.

Thanks

Mike

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:11:08 +0100
Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:

> 
> On Mar 17, 2007, at 4:15, Mike Newman wrote:
> 
> > It appears org-move-item-down treats blank lines as part of the
> > preceding list item (whereas I use them to separate a list from
> > subsequent text).
> >
> > So given
> >
> > - a test
> > - b test
> > - c test
> >
> > test
> >
> > with point on line b, M-x org-move-item-down gives
> > - a test
> > - c test
> >
> > - b test
> > test
> 
> 
> The problem with is this is following.  Suppose I made the item end 
> before the
> empty line, as you suggest.  Then consider the following case:
> 
> - a test
> 
> - b test
> 
> - c test
> 
> If I now move "b" up, I get
> 
> - b test
> - a test
> 
> 
> - c test
> 
> I don't think there is a good solution to this problem - if you
> know one, I would be interested.
> 
> - Carsten
> 


-- 
Mike

Fwd: Feature in org-move-item-down

[Eddward DeVilla]

Once again, it hit reply instead of reply-all.

Edd

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eddward DeVilla <eddward@gmail.com>
Date: Mar 18, 2007 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Orgmode] Feature in org-move-item-down
To: Mike Newman <mike@newmanfamily.me.uk>


    I sometimes have blank lines in list items.  I have lists do
visibility cycling like headings and use them as light weight
headings.  One thing I've found is that empty lines seem to be after
an item and not a part.  Blank lines, with whitespace characters in
them seem to be a part of the item.  I use it and tend to like it.  I
need to turn on a setting to make such blank but not empty lines a
little easier to spot.  If the behavior would change, I'd probably
need to change how I do thing and maybe use heading more.

Edd

On 3/18/07, Mike Newman <mike@newmanfamily.me.uk> wrote:
> The manual (section 2.8) says
>
> "Indentation also determines the end of a list item.  It ends before the next line that is indented like the bullet/number, or less."
>
> I think that a blank line has 0 indentation, therefore (by this logic)
> it should end a list item.  Clearly a blank line cannot start a list
> item, so it must end a list.
>
> I think the question is whether list items can contain blank lines.
> This may be established practice, but it was not what I was expecting.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:11:08 +0100
> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Mar 17, 2007, at 4:15, Mike Newman wrote:
> >
> > > It appears org-move-item-down treats blank lines as part of the
> > > preceding list item (whereas I use them to separate a list from
> > > subsequent text).
> > >
> > > So given
> > >
> > > - a test
> > > - b test
> > > - c test
> > >
> > > test
> > >
> > > with point on line b, M-x org-move-item-down gives
> > > - a test
> > > - c test
> > >
> > > - b test
> > > test
> >
> >
> > The problem with is this is following.  Suppose I made the item end
> > before the
> > empty line, as you suggest.  Then consider the following case:
> >
> > - a test
> >
> > - b test
> >
> > - c test
> >
> > If I now move "b" up, I get
> >
> > - b test
> > - a test
> >
> >
> > - c test
> >
> > I don't think there is a good solution to this problem - if you
> > know one, I would be interested.
> >
> > - Carsten
> >
>
>
> --
> Mike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

Re: Feature in org-move-item-down

[Carsten Dominik]

On Mar 19, 2007, at 4:22, Eddward DeVilla wrote:

> Once again, it hit reply instead of reply-all.
>
> Edd
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Eddward DeVilla <eddward@gmail.com>
> Date: Mar 18, 2007 10:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Orgmode] Feature in org-move-item-down
> To: Mike Newman <mike@newmanfamily.me.uk>
>
>
>    I sometimes have blank lines in list items.  I have lists do
> visibility cycling like headings and use them as light weight
> headings.  One thing I've found is that empty lines seem to be after
> an item and not a part.  Blank lines, with whitespace characters in
> them seem to be a part of the item.

If at all, this may make a difference in visibility cycling (and
then only in Emacs 21), certainly not in the items.

- Carsten

Re: Feature in org-move-item-down

[Carsten Dominik]

On Mar 19, 2007, at 4:26, Mike Newman wrote:

> The manual (section 2.8) says
>
> "Indentation also determines the end of a list item.  It ends before 
> the next line that is indented like the bullet/number, or less."

Yes, you are right, I am treating an empty line as a line with a large
indentation.

Suppose I did what you suggest, treating it as a line with no
indentation:

- one

- two
   - two a
   - two b
   - two c

- three

Now "- three" will not be treated as third item in the list
started by "- one", but it will be starting a new list...

Whatever I do, this is very fragile, and I would have to require
to never put any empty line between items.  What we have
now is at least stable.  I agree that making empty lines
always close all levels of items would be another stable
implementation.  Hmmmmmm.


- Carsten


>
> I think that a blank line has 0 indentation, therefore (by this logic)
> it should end a list item.  Clearly a blank line cannot start a list
> item, so it must end a list.
>
> I think the question is whether list items can contain blank lines.
> This may be established practice, but it was not what I was expecting.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:11:08 +0100
> Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mar 17, 2007, at 4:15, Mike Newman wrote:
>>
>>> It appears org-move-item-down treats blank lines as part of the
>>> preceding list item (whereas I use them to separate a list from
>>> subsequent text).
>>>
>>> So given
>>>
>>> - a test
>>> - b test
>>> - c test
>>>
>>> test
>>>
>>> with point on line b, M-x org-move-item-down gives
>>> - a test
>>> - c test
>>>
>>> - b test
>>> test
>>
>>
>> The problem with is this is following.  Suppose I made the item end
>> before the
>> empty line, as you suggest.  Then consider the following case:
>>
>> - a test
>>
>> - b test
>>
>> - c test
>>
>> If I now move "b" up, I get
>>
>> - b test
>> - a test
>>
>>
>> - c test
>>
>> I don't think there is a good solution to this problem - if you
>> know one, I would be interested.
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Mike
>
>

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: Feature in org-move-item-down

[Bastien]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> I agree that making empty lines always close all levels of items would
> be another stable implementation.  Hmmmmmm.

I think the current implementation is okay, leaving the possibility for
list items to contain empty lines.  Great for long list items, and more
publishing-oriented org files.

Regards,

-- 
Bastien