Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[photobugsm]

On Friday, December 5, 2014 12:35:19 PM UTC-5, Rainer Hansen wrote:
> The Jolla tablet is unlike. It is not only beautiful, it supports Android
> and native Sailfish OS apps. Sailfish OS is basically Linux optimized for
> mobile.
> It supports multitasking and does not track user activities.
> 
> There is a native Emacs app for Sailfish OS that runs in the terminal:
> https://openrepos.net/content/nieldk/emacs-0
> 
> Currently is a campaign for financing development of this tablet. It has
> been received very positively and ends on 9th of December.
> 
> http://igg.me/at/jolla-tablet/x/9325432
> 
> Rainer

Control-Meta-\ type keystrokes would be painful using a virtual keyboard.

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Norbert Melzer]

photobugsm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org Wrote in message:
> On Friday, December 5, 2014 12:35:19 PM UTC-5, Rainer Hansen wrote:
>> The Jolla tablet is unlike. It is not only beautiful, it supports Android
>> and native Sailfish OS apps. Sailfish OS is basically Linux optimized for
>> mobile.
>> It supports multitasking and does not track user activities.
>> 
>> There is a native Emacs app for Sailfish OS that runs in the terminal:
>> https://openrepos.net/content/nieldk/emacs-0
>> 
>> Currently is a campaign for financing development of this tablet. It has
>> been received very positively and ends on 9th of December.
>> 
>> http://igg.me/at/jolla-tablet/x/9325432
>> 
>> Rainer
> 
> Control-Meta-\ type keystrokes would be painful using a virtual keyboard.
> 

They are also on non qwertz layouted keyboards. Since \ is only
 reachable via AltGr (dunno how that key is labeled on English
 keyboards) 
-- 


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Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Rainer Hansen]

The Jolla tablet is unlike. It is not only beautiful, it supports Android
and native Sailfish OS apps. Sailfish OS is basically Linux optimized for
mobile.
It supports multitasking and does not track user activities.

There is a native Emacs app for Sailfish OS that runs in the terminal:
https://openrepos.net/content/nieldk/emacs-0

Currently is a campaign for financing development of this tablet. It has
been received very positively and ends on 9th of December.

http://igg.me/at/jolla-tablet/x/9325432

Rainer

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[J. David Boyd]

Rainer Hansen <rainer.hansen@gmx.net> writes:

> The Jolla tablet is unlike. It is not only beautiful, it supports Android
> and native Sailfish OS apps. Sailfish OS is basically Linux optimized for
> mobile.
> It supports multitasking and does not track user activities.
>
> There is a native Emacs app for Sailfish OS that runs in the terminal:
> https://openrepos.net/content/nieldk/emacs-0
>
> Currently is a campaign for financing development of this tablet. It has
> been received very positively and ends on 9th of December.
>
> http://igg.me/at/jolla-tablet/x/9325432
>
> Rainer

Don't really see the point of Emacs on a tablet.  Without a keyboard it would
feel useless to me, as a virtual keyboard is never going to be good enough.

Dave

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-05, at 18:50, J. David Boyd wrote:

> Don't really see the point of Emacs on a tablet.  Without a keyboard it would
> feel useless to me, as a virtual keyboard is never going to be good enough.

1. Orgmode.

2. Never?  Seriously?  For the next 20-30 years, maybe. ;-)

3. Imagine that in Emacs 27 (for instance), you will be able to bind
commands not only to keys and clicks etc., but also to swipes, pinches,
gestures etc.  Then, why not?

> Dave

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

RE: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Drew Adams]

> 3. Imagine that in Emacs 27 (for instance), you will be able to bind
> commands not only to keys and clicks etc., but also to swipes,
> pinches, gestures etc.  Then, why not?

Indeed, why not?  Emacs 27?  Imagine?

`M-x load-library strokes'
`M-x strokes-help'

http://stackoverflow.com/a/19485215/729907

http://ileriseviye.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/mouse-gestures-recognition-in-emacs/

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/?action=browse;oldid=StrokeMode;id=StrokesMode

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-05, at 21:42, Drew Adams wrote:

>> 3. Imagine that in Emacs 27 (for instance), you will be able to bind
>> commands not only to keys and clicks etc., but also to swipes,
>> pinches, gestures etc.  Then, why not?
>
> Indeed, why not?  Emacs 27?  Imagine?
>
> `M-x load-library strokes'
> `M-x strokes-help'
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/a/19485215/729907
>
> http://ileriseviye.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/mouse-gestures-recognition-in-emacs/
>
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/?action=browse;oldid=StrokeMode;id=StrokesMode

Wow.

Does it support gestures on touch-screens, too?  I'd love to be able
e.g. to pinch a window to bury its buffer, or swipe horizontally to
switch buffers, or swipe vertically to split windows etc.  (I mean, /if/
I had a tablet.  But I guess at some point I might buy myself one.)

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

RE: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Drew Adams]

> > `M-x load-library strokes'
> > `M-x strokes-help'
> 
> Wow.  Does it support gestures on touch-screens, too?

No idea.  I don't use it...or a tablet.  Extend it, if not.

It was created at least 15 years ago.  Long before the
devices you want to use it on now.  (Mouse gestures are
not new.)

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Artur Malabarba]

> Does it support gestures on touch-screens, too?  I'd love to be able
> e.g. to pinch a window to bury its buffer, or swipe horizontally to
> switch buffers, or swipe vertically to split windows etc.  (I mean, /if/
> I had a tablet.  But I guess at some point I might buy myself one.)

Some touchscreen gestures (like dragging) are just regular mouse gestures.
Those should work fine on a laptop with a touch screen. Other gestures are
not (like pinching), those would require additional support in Emacs.

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Alan Schmitt]

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On 2014-12-06 00:03, Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com> writes:

>> Does it support gestures on touch-screens, too?  I'd love to be able
>> e.g. to pinch a window to bury its buffer, or swipe horizontally to
>> switch buffers, or swipe vertically to split windows etc.  (I mean, /if/
>> I had a tablet.  But I guess at some point I might buy myself one.)
>
> Some touchscreen gestures (like dragging) are just regular mouse gestures.
> Those should work fine on a laptop with a touch screen. Other gestures are
> not (like pinching), those would require additional support in Emacs.

I have found by accident that some OS X gestures work in the (nonGNU)
emacs-mac-port: the back and forward gestures (two fingers swipe
sideways) switches buffers, pinching zooms, and three finger clicks open
an OS X dictionary tool-tip.

Alan

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Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Milan Zamazal]

>>>>> "AM" == Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com> writes:

    AM> Some touchscreen gestures (like dragging) are just regular mouse
    AM> gestures.  Those should work fine on a laptop with a touch
    AM> screen.

The question is whether they work this way also in Emacs running in the
Jolla tablet terminal.

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-05, at 21:21, Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> On 2014-12-05, at 18:50, J. David Boyd wrote:
>
>> Don't really see the point of Emacs on a tablet.  Without a keyboard it would
>> feel useless to me, as a virtual keyboard is never going to be good enough.
>
> 1. Orgmode.

BTW, I thought I should expand this.

You know, people use text editors for various things, not only text
editing.  (I mean "text editors" here, not "toys", that is.  So that I
mean either one of them.)  One of them is /reading/ text.  Emacs has
view-mode, which is a very nice thing, and info-mode, which is pure
genius - so much better than HTML browsing.  Also, there is Org-mode
(with agenda).  It is something that might not really need /typing/ much
text.  A tablet with Emacs + Org-mode would be great for PIM, clocking,
capturing short notes, marking things done etc.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[J. David Boyd]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> On 2014-12-05, at 18:50, J. David Boyd wrote:
>
>> Don't really see the point of Emacs on a tablet.  Without a keyboard it would
>> feel useless to me, as a virtual keyboard is never going to be good enough.
>
> 1. Orgmode.
>
> 2. Never?  Seriously?  For the next 20-30 years, maybe. ;-)
>
> 3. Imagine that in Emacs 27 (for instance), you will be able to bind
> commands not only to keys and clicks etc., but also to swipes, pinches,
> gestures etc.  Then, why not?
>
>> Dave
>
> Best,


I don't do things like that now with my mouse and different browsers that
support it.  I yank my hands around too much to have them be initiating
commands.

But I do see your point.

Dave

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-09, at 18:00, J. David Boyd wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
>
>> On 2014-12-05, at 18:50, J. David Boyd wrote:
>>
>>> Don't really see the point of Emacs on a tablet.  Without a keyboard it would
>>> feel useless to me, as a virtual keyboard is never going to be good enough.
>>
>> 1. Orgmode.
>>
>> 2. Never?  Seriously?  For the next 20-30 years, maybe. ;-)
>>
>> 3. Imagine that in Emacs 27 (for instance), you will be able to bind
>> commands not only to keys and clicks etc., but also to swipes, pinches,
>> gestures etc.  Then, why not?
>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> Best,
>
>
> I don't do things like that now with my mouse and different browsers that
> support it.  I yank my hands around too much to have them be initiating
> commands.
>
> But I do see your point.

Thanks.

Notice that in the traditional setting, you have the keyboard /and/ the
mouse, so if you want to use the mouse, you have to move your hands a
lot (=ineffective).  On a tablet, you only have the touchscreen, so it's
much more natural to use these gestures.

In general, tablets seem to be good when you /consume/ information, not
/produce/ it.  But Emacs is useful at that, too.

(That said, I neither own nor use a tablet myself.)

> Dave

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Robert Thorpe]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
> Notice that in the traditional setting, you have the keyboard /and/ the
> mouse, so if you want to use the mouse, you have to move your hands a
> lot (=ineffective).  On a tablet, you only have the touchscreen, so it's
> much more natural to use these gestures.
>
> In general, tablets seem to be good when you /consume/ information, not
> /produce/ it.  But Emacs is useful at that, too.

Many tablets these days can use external keyboards, so they can be used
like laptops.  These keyboards come in cases that hold the tablet.  This
does potentially have an advantage: you have one device that's both
tablet and laptop.  If you just want to read something you can leave the
keyboard at home, but it's there if you want to do more.

I haven't tried this setup yet, but a friend of mine uses it.

BR,
Robert Thorpe

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[J. David Boyd]

Robert Thorpe <rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com> writes:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
>> Notice that in the traditional setting, you have the keyboard /and/ the
>> mouse, so if you want to use the mouse, you have to move your hands a
>> lot (=ineffective).  On a tablet, you only have the touchscreen, so it's
>> much more natural to use these gestures.
>>
>> In general, tablets seem to be good when you /consume/ information, not
>> /produce/ it.  But Emacs is useful at that, too.
>
> Many tablets these days can use external keyboards, so they can be used
> like laptops.  These keyboards come in cases that hold the tablet.  This
> does potentially have an advantage: you have one device that's both
> tablet and laptop.  If you just want to read something you can leave the
> keyboard at home, but it's there if you want to do more.
>
> I haven't tried this setup yet, but a friend of mine uses it.
>
> BR,
> Robert Thorpe


A friend of mine has a Samsung brand of Android tablet.  Gets about 8 hours
battery life.  When he connects the keyboard, it adds ~7 more hours batter
life.  That's the kind of keyboard I would like.

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Robert Thorpe]

dboyd2@mmm.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
> A friend of mine has a Samsung brand of Android tablet.  Gets about 8 hours
> battery life.  When he connects the keyboard, it adds ~7 more hours batter
> life.  That's the kind of keyboard I would like.

I expect most tablets would give better battery life with a keyboard.  Capacitive touch-screens use quite a lot of power.  There's been a lot
of work recently on reducing that.  It's getting better gradually I
believe.  I work for a company that used to design chips to drive them.

BR,
Robert Thorpe

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[J. David Boyd]

Robert Thorpe <rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com> writes:

> dboyd2@mmm.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
>> A friend of mine has a Samsung brand of Android tablet.  Gets about 8 hours
>> battery life.  When he connects the keyboard, it adds ~7 more hours batter
>> life.  That's the kind of keyboard I would like.
>
> I expect most tablets would give better battery life with a keyboard.
> Capacitive touch-screens use quite a lot of power.  There's been a lot of
> work recently on reducing that.  It's getting better gradually I believe.  I
> work for a company that used to design chips to drive them.
>
> BR,
> Robert Thorpe

On the Samsung it gets longer runtimes because there is another battery in the
keyboard....

Dave

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Bob Proulx]

J. David Boyd wrote:
> Robert Thorpe writes:
> > J. David Boyd writes:
> > > A friend of mine has a Samsung brand of Android tablet.  Gets
> > > about 8 hours battery life.  When he connects the keyboard, it
> > > adds ~7 more hours batter life.  That's the kind of keyboard I
> > > would like.
> >
> > I expect most tablets would give better battery life with a
> > keyboard.  Capacitive touch-screens use quite a lot of power.
> > There's been a lot of work recently on reducing that.  It's
> > getting better gradually I believe.  I work for a company that
> > used to design chips to drive them.
>
> On the Samsung it gets longer runtimes because there is another
> battery in the keyboard....

Sounds like the ASUS Transformer tablet keyboard combination.  There
is an auxilary battery in the keyboard.  While the keyboard is
attached it uses the keyboard battery first.  I know someone with one
of these and they like it quite a bit.

  http://www.trustedreviews.com/asus-eee-pad-transformer-review-keyboard-and-battery-life-page-2

Bob

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[J. David Boyd]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> J. David Boyd wrote:
>> Robert Thorpe writes:
>> > J. David Boyd writes:
>> > > A friend of mine has a Samsung brand of Android tablet.  Gets
>> > > about 8 hours battery life.  When he connects the keyboard, it
>> > > adds ~7 more hours batter life.  That's the kind of keyboard I
>> > > would like.
>> >
>> > I expect most tablets would give better battery life with a
>> > keyboard.  Capacitive touch-screens use quite a lot of power.
>> > There's been a lot of work recently on reducing that.  It's
>> > getting better gradually I believe.  I work for a company that
>> > used to design chips to drive them.
>>
>> On the Samsung it gets longer runtimes because there is another
>> battery in the keyboard....
>
> Sounds like the ASUS Transformer tablet keyboard combination.  There
> is an auxilary battery in the keyboard.  While the keyboard is
> attached it uses the keyboard battery first.  I know someone with one
> of these and they like it quite a bit.
>
>   http://www.trustedreviews.com/asus-eee-pad-transformer-review-keyboard-and-battery-life-page-2
>
> Bob

Hmm, you're right.  Wasn't Samsung, was ASUS Transformer.  The owner loves
it. He gets about 15 hours between charges using it plugged into the
keyboard.  And the keyboard feels pretty good, as well.

Dave

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Artur Malabarba]

> Don't really see the point of Emacs on a tablet.  Without a keyboard it
would
> feel useless to me, as a virtual keyboard is never going to be good
enough.
>

Bluetooth keyboard. Of course, then you basically have a tiny laptop.

Re: Campaign for Tablet which runs Emacs closes soon

[Anssi Saari]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> On 2014-12-05, at 18:50, J. David Boyd wrote:
>
>> Don't really see the point of Emacs on a tablet.  Without a keyboard it would
>> feel useless to me, as a virtual keyboard is never going to be good enough.
>
> 1. Orgmode.

Yes! I wish there were decent Android support for Orgmode so I could use
it more but since there isn't I use mostly Google's Keep for shopping
lists and todos. Keep is crude and primitive but since it syncs quietly
and without a fuss it wins. So the stuff I put in it on a PC simply
appears on my phone or tablet on the go.